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I am going to miss Bush so much
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
KenH
Well-Known Member
targus said:
No need to as I lived through it. And this recession/possible depression is not over by any means. Unemployment is definitely headed higher, possibly much higher, than it was in October. Even putting into place a new stimulus program by the new Congress and new administration won't start kicking in until a year from now or maybe even early 2009.
KenH said:
Now come on.
You said, "...nation in the worst shape it has been in since President Hoover turned the presidency over to President Roosevelt".
Let's stay with that.
Please show me that we are in worse shape now than we were under Carter.
The typical benchmarks are inflation, unemployment and interest rates.
Also are you aware that real median income per household member (meaning adjusted for inflation) reached an all time high in 2007?
An all time high would of course mean the real median income per household member is higher now than it was under Carter too.
KenH said:Well, targus, if you think the current economic conditions are rosy, then all I can say is God bless you, brother, as I don't won't to spoil your optimistic outlook.
Should I take your lack of response as an admission that the nation is NOT "in the worst shape it has been in since President Hoover turned the presidency over to President Roosevelt"?
Bob Alkire
New Member
targus said:
By being a truck driver, I judge thing a little different. In the Carter years you could find a parking place in truck stop at anytime, night or day. There was less being hauled. Today you had better get in by 4 or 5 PM or you aren't going to find a parking place at most truck stops. There is a little less trucks on the road but still more than we can park at most truck stops.
I bought a truck in the Carter years and I think the interest was over 15 percent and a house at 12 percent or higher, if I recall correctly. Things aren't great today but not as bad as the Carter years.
We hauled more into the ports then and more out of the ports today. Most of what we hauled was made in this country, today I would say maybe 40 to 50 percent comes out of the ports. But that has been going that way for the last 16 years or so. Like my main customer was all made in this country, then to Mexico and the islands off Florida, now they are moving them to China and other places in that part of the world. I haul textile type and cloths, they moved down from New England to the south in the early 1900's, then to Mexico and off shore now moving to China and that part of the world. It all about price, we don't want to pay much but want to get a good pay check, for the most part. It isn't a problem till it is your job.
Nice try at covering your posterior, Ken; sorta like a cat does it's mess.KenH said:
"In two months" AIN'T now!!
This recession is owned by the Dems. They initiated the sub prime loans, they fought against the regulation of sub prime loans, and now it has come back to haunt them.
Bush owns the debt as much as the Dems with all the entitlment spending and support of illegal immigration.
Bush owns the debt as much as the Dems with all the entitlment spending and support of illegal immigration.
Revmitchell said:
Keep singing your song ... but history will prove you wrong. :laugh:
Crabtownboy said:
There has been a lot of talk recently about a different kind of post. This does not lend to that at all.
Revmitchell said:
There was no personal attack here, no name calling ... just stating a fact that you are incorrect. This mess did not begin 2 years ago. It started long ago and is finally coming home and will have to be paid. You cannot blame everything on the Democrats when the Republicians have held the Executive Branch 7 out of the last 10 presidents, when they contolled the House and Senate 10 out of the last 12 years. History will not blame just the Democrats. The Republicans, starting under Reagan set us on this slippery slope. Bush bascially putting the Iraq war on American's credit card made us the largest debtor nation in the world. The piper is coming home to be paid. There is enough blame to go all around. But as Harry Turman was honest enough to know, "The Buck Stops Here," in the White House.
windcatcher
New Member
Bob Alkire said:
Times changed a lot between the Eisenhower years and now: You're right: Daddy had a non-union factory job in a fibers plant in the south and made better than $7/hr with bennies in the late 1960's. (JFK-Nixon)
I got my 2 yr diploma '69 and state license in NC and lived in an area where there was a number of dental hygienist competing for a few openings: As an assistant salaried until my license came through, my gross pay was $240/month: As a hygienist pay went to $5/hour by 1979 and I had been buying my own health insurance BXBS at $50/month..... in a time where that was the going rate for a hospital day. (Nixon through Carter years) Spacious 1 bedroom apartments were about $250/month in Raleigh, NC. In about 73' a fuel crisis was staged by US dept of energy and the major oil companies cutting back their supplies at the wells in our country. Credit card living was promoted with high rates and thrid world countries were looked upon as a source of cheap labor and cheaply priced goods.
In 1978 bought my first brand new car, a Toyota Corolla 4 spd, for economy and reliability for $3,600. It had no ammenities other than an AM/FM radio.... even floor boards was plastic.... no AC.... But I could change spark plugs/ wires/ distributer/ gap plugs and points, change the oil and filter.... and tires..... the car ran into the 1990's when I sold it to a neighbor in need for $1. It ran pass the 250,000 mileage marker... but, lol, only registered up to 99,999 if I recall correctly. Interest payments were high but I don't recall how much. (Carter years) Business talk began of becoming a 'service' oriented society. ...How does one do that without some manufacturing and export market? How does one export "service"?
Returned to FL and home 1980: minimum wage was about $3 middish but jobs hard to find. Dad still working with increases at his job and ideas about how well off children should be....had no clue: in 1981, bought a custom built home on an acre of owned land financed under Farmer's Home, 1 bath 2 br/ 900 sq ft for $29,000 at 13.25% interest and subsidized for low income no a/c allowed in financing. (Reagon just taken office)
When the husband I married in 88 died in 95' I paid off the principal with life insurance money of about $17,000. (Clinton years) I'd been paying the full premium since marriage. Still the government wanted $10,000 recapture subsidy on a loan which they would not let me renegotiate when interest rates started dropping 7-8 years eartlier.... (So much for 'helping the poor'. ..... All the while there is no reduction in homeowners insurance, nor property taxes, and the interest being 'subsidized' is not a tax deduction for income taxes..... so I'm paying the same tax rates as one without a mortgage. Once again, so 'much' for helping the poor.)
That is, in 1988-89 (Reagan/Bush years) home loans were then available for as little interest as 4.5-7% but my loan through the government was still figured at 13.25% annually. Land and property values grew. Through the '90's, a lot more home could have been bought with the $330/month payments, I'd been making.
With husband's death, household income dropped once more to one salary of about $7/hr. In 2002 my job of about 22 years terminated and work was then paying about $10/hr including the shift differential for night time work which the company had started paying. Fortunately health insurance was provided free to employees and discounted for marrieds and children through most of my time with this company. These were Clinton years: NAFTA was passed. Walmart grew. Cheap if not always quality sold well.... imports grew and industry and technology was exported to other countries for cheaper labor, fewer regulations, and less taxes. Our government grew and so did our service 'industry'.
During the passage of these years, (Bush-Clinton-Bush) job instability seemed to be increasing for many occupations, and the entry requirements seemed to become more heavilly weighted for those with college degrees....... though, for the life of me.... I saw no improvement in reading, writing, objective observational skills, or thinking skills to match the degrees of people I met in business contacts.------That is of course my opinion..... but both the education and the work ethic seemed to be dumbing downthrough the 80's and faster through the 90's.
Even management underwent changes in leadership direction: In 1980 my employer required that all staff became familiar with policies and procedures and the manual updates on each unit, and abide by them even if directed wrongly by a peer or supervisor. During the 1990's these were no longer a significant part of employee orientation and discipline for failure of abiding by P&P was met out only if there was 'an incident' which might place the company in jeapardy (a legal risk). Otherwise, people who snubbed the P&P were actually promoted for their 'innovation' in taking short-cuts and quantity over quality became dominant.
No matter what the quality truely was, if tasks were documented it was as though they'd been performed correctly. Workers dependant on the accuracy of documentation had no recourse to errors or ommission or undone work wrongly documented..... and were 'trouble makers' if they reported sloppy work or recorded incidnets which they had corrected.
Job evaluations took a turn: No longer was it important that your supervisor thought or saw that you did your job well: By the year 2000, they started requiring that a person critique themselves on the job they did, and then the supervisor would either accept or counsel for a corrected self evaluation.... (Can one see where this is going when in Christian circles and Biblically speaking we are taught not to think of ourselves more highly than we ought..... and one has not been properly introduced to this new type of self report?)
In 2003 I drove a truck but became ill in late 2004 and job terminated. (Bush years) In 2005 I had treatment for cancer and recovered my home repairs from hurracane Ivan but had lost insurance and paid for a second new roof out of pocket when Dennis took both it and my Florida room off my house.... the latter was never rebuilt. During the early part of the 90's when my company started offering a non-matching 401-k, started saving in mutual funds... diversified for growth, risks, stability, foreign and scientic/technical. I let it grow and tried not to get too concerned with the ups and downs reported quarterly. By the time illness hit me, I was dependant on these funds and the aprox $40,000, paid my Cobra, home repair, and medical, and my utilities and necessities during the time I've been unemployed until it exhausted midway this year.... just in time for me to qualify for my widow's social security. I took it out in unevenly divided drafts, letting as much of it grow as I could. The 401-k had taken a dive after 9-11-01, but the rally afterward brought it back to adequately cover my needs (Praise God) The last draft which I took which exhausted that reserve was taken at the first of this year...... so maybe God's provision was in the timing of that need before the market dropped. Oh, and the company of the 401-k was Vallic or AIG.... go figure!
Sorry, but all I can give are my experiences with the economy through the passage of my years in living in it. Perhaps there are several lessons, or perhaps none..... except one thing I know: my God has promised to supply alll my needs according to his riches in glory. I've yet to learn as Paul gave encouragement to be abased and to abound..... and in everything to be content..... which means no whinning and being filled always with thanksgiving.
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rbell said:
I don't know about you, but I was better off under Carter, Johns and Nixon. I am much worse off now than I was under Clinton ... in fact much worse off now than in August of this year.
windcatcher
New Member
Crabtownboy said:
I think some give too much credit to the Presidents and the Legislatures for the economy...... when it is diriven by powerful people who have all the money they want and are after power.... and through their business alliances and organizations they use their wealth to influence the peoples information and politics and education..... and their monies to lobby govenment, and their 'expertise' of success to authenticate their authority in advisory or appointed positions, so that they get the policies of Presidents and law makers to move in their direction.
And many are affiliated with the Angel of Finance whom they worship and serve. Don't believe it? The Bible DOES talk about the angel of finance... Check out Luke 4 and Matthew 4, and you will see him and the temptation he's been laying before mankind.
windcatcher
New Member
:thumbs: Right on Rev! You spared no one in this statement!Revmitchell said:
Crabtownboy said:
The flaw would be in assuming that your experience equals a global one.
Let's keep in mind that in an eight-year presidency, there will usually be peaks and valleys--recessions and booms.
In a country of hundreds of millions, there will be many who buck the trend, whether for better or worse.
I can easily, however, make a case for Carter, Nixon, and Johnson's administrations being as problematic as Bush's.
These "Bush is the worst ever" posts by some show a stunning lack of consideration of other presidencies and their issues.
targus said:
Yep, but there are going to be some great buys when this bottoms our. I expect a bump up, but I am not sure we have seen the bottom yet. If the DOW can break through major resistance in the next few weeks it may signal that the bottom has been reached. But as for now, it is too soon to know if this is the bottom, or simply a lull on the way further down. I do not have the background to do fundamental analysis, so I have always used technical analysis.
The type of chart I followed indicated the DOW would go down to at least 7600. It overshot that a bit, but did come back. But, it is still way below major resistance.
Actually I was much better off in the first ten years after I retired.