I Believe In Free Will

[HopefulNChrist]

If God left all of us to our own desires and "free will", due to our sin natures and condition, we would all here stayed lost!

Right. So who can really brag about the free will of mankind? No one should be able to.

Even as a Christian, I find that I am free to make a choice... to choose this day Whom I will serve, the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name, and though I made that choice to serve Him, I find that there is no power in that choice, as I was led to trust Him to help me to serve Him in seeking His glory and nothing else in His name.

 

[Rockson]

So "Calvinists" are not allowed to define the terms they believe but you are allowed to define the terms that you don't believe?

What I said my dear brother was,
And that's why one should not allow Calvinists to define the terms either.

What does either mean to you? Doesn't it mean both sides? Yes they need to come to the table and discuss the reasons for defining terms in the way and manner they do and not merely throwing down the term and make people accept it.

Okay. "Rockson" is a metaphore that means "seriously mentally ill" and "a servant of Satan."

Well there you go again. I think I asked a question in good faith from my post before ==>,So why do some of you people say the most insulting things to people that don't agree with you? You yourself would claim not knowing the truth is not our fault.

And so I see you had even put this down below,

Okay. "Rockson" is a metaphore that means "seriously mentally ill" and "a servant of Satan."

Isn't it apparent that you and a few others seem to delight in provoking individuals not wanting a good will discussion but just slamming people. Where's your grace in that? Oh sure if someone agrees with you they're in your good books...if not, look out, where's the axe!

I have NEVER EVER , EVER on here made a joke on here or tried to use it as a metaphore that Calvinists are "seriously mental ill" or "servants of Satan"

Shouldn't you consider this off the table for you? Quiet frankly it saddens me that you don't think it should be. Oh well...all the best !

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Biblically speaking, nobody should be identified with any one other than Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

So who wants to be identified as a Calvinist now?

Think John Calvin has done no wrong Biblically? Think again. He supported the execution of heretics and that is something Jesus never taught any Christian to do, but to excommunicate them from the assembly.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Proof that John Calvin was responsible for the execution of the heretic, Servetus, is found at this link below.

Was John Calvin a Heretic-Burning Maniac?

If that article doesn't lift your sights higher from John Calvin to Jesus Christ, then He will lift up your heads eventually.

In context, unrepentant believers are still His sheep no matter how lost they become after they have been saved by Him, and so if they do not repent after having been excommunicated from the assembly, they will repent when excommunicated from the Marriage Supper table in Heaven by the Bridegroom. BUT they will be received later on after the great tribulation because He is the Good Shepherd that will get even that one lost sheep. That is the context of the meaning of His words.

But yeah.... unless John Calvin repented of condoning the execution of a heretic, Servetus, His words denies John Calvin by that iniquity.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Still want to call yourself a Calvinist?

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[TCassidy]

So why do Christians sin having a new nature?

If you do not know the answer to that question you ought not be in this discussion. I have explained it several time. The lost man has only the Old Man. The saved man has both the Old Man and the New Man. The Old Man still desires and leads us to sin. The New Man cannot sin and leads us to not sin. John makes that very clear in his epistles.

The Old Man: 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The New Man: 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Well yes I'm sure we stand by our convictions as strong as you do.

Do you stand on your "conviction" that the bible is wrong and John did not know what he was talking about?

You yourself would claim not knowing the truth is not our fault.

Wrong again.

You don't see any purpose in us being forgiven even though we don't know what we do.

Wrong again.

Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

 

[Yeshua1]

Biblically speaking, nobody should be identified with any one other than Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

So who wants to be identified as a Calvinist now?

Think John Calvin has done no wrong Biblically? Think again. He supported the execution of heretics and that is something Jesus never taught any Christian to do, but to excommunicate them from the assembly.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Proof that John Calvin was responsible for the execution of the heretic, Servetus, is found at this link below.

Was John Calvin a Heretic-Burning Maniac?

If that article doesn't lift your sights higher from John Calvin to Jesus Christ, then He will lift up your heads eventually.

In context, unrepentant believers are still His sheep no matter how lost they become after they have been saved by Him, and so if they do not repent after having been excommunicated from the assembly, they will repent when excommunicated from the Marriage Supper table in Heaven by the Bridegroom. BUT they will be received later on after the great tribulation because He is the Good Shepherd that will get even that one lost sheep. That is the context of the meaning of His words.

But yeah.... unless John Calvin repented of condoning the execution of a heretic, Servetus, His words denies John Calvin by that iniquity.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Still want to call yourself a Calvinist?

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

John Calvin was not an Apostle, nor was he perfect, but his was the greatest theologian to the church since Augustine by God, and you have to undrstand the situation based upon his times and views, not ours!

 

[HopefulNChrist]

John Calvin was not an Apostle, nor was he perfect, but his was the greatest theologian to the church since Augustine by God, and you have to undrstand the situation based upon his times and views, not ours!

What was happening in his times was not happening in the early church days. For someone that claims to have read the Bible, he sure did miss out what the Bible taught in regards to dealing with heretics, and it wasn't execution; it was excommunication.

 

[robycop3]

But it ended in the Garden Of Eden!... Since I have been on here I have heard brethren talk about free will but when Adam broke the Law of God the only one that could bring back man to God was God manifest in the flesh... Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Son Of God and as we all know the second person in the Godhead and who scripture is called the second Adam... We all know the story and I won't go into it but we all know that the first Adam because his disobedience brought death and plunged him and all his posterity in sin, the second Adam brought eternal life to all the Father had given him... He stood where you and I can never stand and tasted death for all men, but his blood was shed for only those the Father gave him and not for all men... If he did then the whole Adamic race of mankind would be saved, which scripture never teaches... He carried out the will of God and satisfied the Holy Law of God Adam broke to a jot and a tittle that none of us could do.


Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is no doubt in my mind that Adam knew what he was eating when he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Eve gave him, he knew and did it anyway... God knew what had taken place, he that knew the end from the beginning and those things not yet done saying my counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure… He didn’t cause it to happen or orchestrate it , but when Adan sinned he had the remedy for it… The scripture also teaches that!

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God also made the first sacrifice as something had to die to cloth Adam and Eve in animal skins, a type and shadow of the sacrifice his only son Jesus Christ made to cover our nakedness, by his righteousness and his righteousness alone…. Could have been a lamb slain but your guess is as good as mine…. Then God drove man out his Garden and place a barrier… Reading John Gill he mentioned the barrier was God himself preventing access to the tree of life where man could partake and live forever… But if I understand anything about scripture, the only one who could satisfy God and remove the barrier and satisfy his just and Holy Will was none other than the Son Of God our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ… That is where the doctrine of Sovereign Grace and Salvations come in not that we did anything to get it but that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did it for all his children by carrying out the will of God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I know some are going to say see there is I came to Christ by my free will, I disagree God alone changed your heart and the Holy Spirit alone brought you… Scripture teaches that too!... Now you have heard how I view free will and know what I believe about it… I also know some are going to agree and some are not, that is nothing new on here… Me, I’m going to sit on the sidelines and see how this discussion unfolds if it does and maybe jump in if I have a mind to… Brother Glen

I think 2 Peter 3:9 shows free will is very-much evident -
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

if God had wanted robots, incapable of the slightest disobedience, He coulda easily created them. But He wants beings who love Him of their own free will, not from fear or sense of duty.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I think 2 Peter 3:9 shows free will is very-much evident -
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

if God had wanted robots, incapable of the slightest disobedience, He coulda easily created them. But He wants beings who love Him of their own free will, not from fear or sense of duty.

How is there free will when God has made a promise to that effect if you wish to use that verse in that way?

 

[TCassidy]

if God had wanted robots,

Here is the tired old straw man of the "God didn't make robots!" fame.

Of course, nobody has suggested God made robots, but like the leftists in Congress, never let a dishonest cliche go to waste.

incapable of the slightest disobedience,

Again, nobody has suggested any such nonsense. Just another straw man trying to defect the discussion from the real point. Either a man is lost in sin or he is not. Either a man needs the Savior or he does not. Either Christ purchased our redemption or He didn't. Either Christ's sacrifice is sufficient or it is not.

 

[Rockson]

I see how you applied that verse but because scripture cannot go against scripture, and so you have to be applying that verse wrong.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

If that is not enough, see His reason for speaking in parables below.

Matthew 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

No my friend...it's all about context, context, CONTEXT. Yes the Bible does say those things.You must keep in mind these scriptures are never used as when talking about the Gentiles but about Jews until after Christ had died and arose from the dead. In Acts 2:40 we read gospel light was being revealed to the Jews in the larger sense of the word. Let's put it this way...the time had come for the light to dawn.

Also consider that if God had to speak in parables to keep them from understanding the truth that sets aside Calvinistic total depravity. CTD would say men can't understand truth so there'd be no need to harden them if that were the case.

As I've said this keeping the truth from many in Israel was meant to be only temporal. You can see in your verse above that many even prophets and righteous men didn't see the truths until what would be a later appointed time.

Does that mean they weren't saved in the end? Of course not. There was progressive revelation for a purpose to bring about Christ going to the cross. So my statement that Jesus brings light to every mean in the world still holds true. Every man and all men.

 

[Rockson]

Here is the tired old straw man of the "God didn't make robots!" fame.

Of course, nobody has suggested God made robots, but like the leftists in Congress, never let a dishonest cliche go to waste.

There you go again! Cassidy is this really necessary? (I've boldened your words above) You pick a political group which let's admit most Christians Arminian and Calvinists alike feel are the enemy of the church and you link a non-Calvinist to such individuals. Will your demonizing of people of whom you should think of as your brothers EVER STOP? This is so very disheartening and most sad! With all due respect I encourage you to stop.

 

[Benjamin]

I couldn't help but notice that you never go beyond stating your definition. There was no real attempt to show its agreement with scripture. Instead, you demand the debate happen according to your terms--which have not been proven by you. This is the very definition of "Begging the Question."

The Archangel

Ridiculous, first you rightly say I didn't make an argument to defend MY position as per MY definition of free will, and then you say I begged the question on the argument that I didn't make! LOL. - that's a pretty good trick!

No, I didn't bother to make my arguments, or to try to structure one here out of that mess of an Op to even make one, I just called out tyndale for his trying to build strawman conclusions on his opposition and throw him a couple questions to hide from about his positional claims while he sits on the sidelines after making such faulty claims.

Now, if you want to see begging the question in this thread look at TCassidy's post, this guy jumps in and wants to define MY position by first defining MY view of free will as per his messed up definition he's been getting away with claiming is THE DEFINITION of FREE WILL according to his position so he can then make his argument against MY position that doesn't even exist! What a setup, eh? LOL..I guess he's said it so many times around here unchecked that he now believes it must be true. I don't waste my time with him, or his nonsense ...

Both you wannabe Compatibilists want to have free will both ways, you need to have it both ways, and like I've told you before I can respect that you'd at least have enough sense to recognize the need to avoid theological fatalism with your Determinists' views which, unfortunately for you, all 5 points of the TULIP must logically hinge on Strict Determinism to even begin to hold water - but as per my signature line, you can't have it both ways, true and not true. ...like it or not.

 

[robycop3]

Here is the tired old straw man of the "God didn't make robots!" fame.

Of course, nobody has suggested God made robots, but like the leftists in Congress, never let a dishonest cliche go to waste.

Again, nobody has suggested any such nonsense. Just another straw man trying to defect the discussion from the real point. Either a man is lost in sin or he is not. Either a man needs the Savior or he does not. Either Christ purchased our redemption or He didn't. Either Christ's sacrifice is sufficient or it is not.

This isn't about Jesus' being the only Savior. it's about whether man may choose to come to Jesus or not.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This isn't about Jesus' being the only Savior. it's about whether man may choose to come to Jesus or not.

Is it now. Your sure of that?

BTW, who is the other Savior?

 

[1689Dave]

But it ended in the Garden Of Eden!... Since I have been on here I have heard brethren talk about free will but when Adam broke the Law of God the only one that could bring back man to God was God manifest in the flesh... Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Son Of God and as we all know the second person in the Godhead and who scripture is called the second Adam... We all know the story and I won't go into it but we all know that the first Adam because his disobedience brought death and plunged him and all his posterity in sin, the second Adam brought eternal life to all the Father had given him... He stood where you and I can never stand and tasted death for all men, but his blood was shed for only those the Father gave him and not for all men... If he did then the whole Adamic race of mankind would be saved, which scripture never teaches... He carried out the will of God and satisfied the Holy Law of God Adam broke to a jot and a tittle that none of us could do.


Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is no doubt in my mind that Adam knew what he was eating when he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Eve gave him, he knew and did it anyway... God knew what had taken place, he that knew the end from the beginning and those things not yet done saying my counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure… He didn’t cause it to happen or orchestrate it , but when Adan sinned he had the remedy for it… The scripture also teaches that!

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God also made the first sacrifice as something had to die to cloth Adam and Eve in animal skins, a type and shadow of the sacrifice his only son Jesus Christ made to cover our nakedness, by his righteousness and his righteousness alone…. Could have been a lamb slain but your guess is as good as mine…. Then God drove man out his Garden and place a barrier… Reading John Gill he mentioned the barrier was God himself preventing access to the tree of life where man could partake and live forever… But if I understand anything about scripture, the only one who could satisfy God and remove the barrier and satisfy his just and Holy Will was none other than the Son Of God our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ… That is where the doctrine of Sovereign Grace and Salvations come in not that we did anything to get it but that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did it for all his children by carrying out the will of God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I know some are going to say see there is I came to Christ by my free will, I disagree God alone changed your heart and the Holy Spirit alone brought you… Scripture teaches that too!... Now you have heard how I view free will and know what I believe about it… I also know some are going to agree and some are not, that is nothing new on here… Me, I’m going to sit on the sidelines and see how this discussion unfolds if it does and maybe jump in if I have a mind to… Brother Glen

In reading the account of the Fall in Genesis, I believe God created Adam perfectly sinless, but with a nature that would sin when given a law. No law, no sin. And since Adam wanted to sin, he incurred the guilt. It was a free choice according to his nature that brought our fall.

 

[robycop3]

Is it now. Your sure of that?

Yep!

[/quote]BTW, who is the other Savior?[/QUOTE]

Aint no other Savior.

 

[TCassidy]

Will your demonizing of people of whom you should think of as your brothers EVER STOP?

As soon as your side stops posting untruthful straw man arguments.

 

[loDebar]

But it ended in the Garden Of Eden!... Since I have been on here I have heard brethren talk about free will but when Adam broke the Law of God the only one that could bring back man to God was God manifest in the flesh... Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Son Of God and as we all know the second person in the Godhead and who scripture is called the second Adam... We all know the story and I won't go into it but we all know that the first Adam because his disobedience brought death and plunged him and all his posterity in sin, the second Adam brought eternal life to all the Father had given him... He stood where you and I can never stand and tasted death for all men, but his blood was shed for only those the Father gave him and not for all men... If he did then the whole Adamic race of mankind would be saved, which scripture never teaches... He carried out the will of God and satisfied the Holy Law of God Adam broke to a jot and a tittle that none of us could do.


Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is no doubt in my mind that Adam knew what he was eating when he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Eve gave him, he knew and did it anyway... God knew what had taken place, he that knew the end from the beginning and those things not yet done saying my counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure… He didn’t cause it to happen or orchestrate it , but when Adan sinned he had the remedy for it… The scripture also teaches that!

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God also made the first sacrifice as something had to die to cloth Adam and Eve in animal skins, a type and shadow of the sacrifice his only son Jesus Christ made to cover our nakedness, by his righteousness and his righteousness alone…. Could have been a lamb slain but your guess is as good as mine…. Then God drove man out his Garden and place a barrier… Reading John Gill he mentioned the barrier was God himself preventing access to the tree of life where man could partake and live forever… But if I understand anything about scripture, the only one who could satisfy God and remove the barrier and satisfy his just and Holy Will was none other than the Son Of God our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ… That is where the doctrine of Sovereign Grace and Salvations come in not that we did anything to get it but that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did it for all his children by carrying out the will of God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I know some are going to say see there is I came to Christ by my free will, I disagree God alone changed your heart and the Holy Spirit alone brought you… Scripture teaches that too!... Now you have heard how I view free will and know what I believe about it… I also know some are going to agree and some are not, that is nothing new on here… Me, I’m going to sit on the sidelines and see how this discussion unfolds if it does and maybe jump in if I have a mind to… Brother Glen

Have you never sinned of your own free will?

 

[Aaron]

But it ended in the Garden Of Eden!... Since I have been on here I have heard brethren talk about free will but when Adam broke the Law of God the only one that could bring back man to God was God manifest in the flesh... Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Son Of God and as we all know the second person in the Godhead and who scripture is called the second Adam... We all know the story and I won't go into it but we all know that the first Adam because his disobedience brought death and plunged him and all his posterity in sin, the second Adam brought eternal life to all the Father had given him... He stood where you and I can never stand and tasted death for all men, but his blood was shed for only those the Father gave him and not for all men... If he did then the whole Adamic race of mankind would be saved, which scripture never teaches... He carried out the will of God and satisfied the Holy Law of God Adam broke to a jot and a tittle that none of us could do.


Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is no doubt in my mind that Adam knew what he was eating when he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Eve gave him, he knew and did it anyway... God knew what had taken place, he that knew the end from the beginning and those things not yet done saying my counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure… He didn’t cause it to happen or orchestrate it , but when Adan sinned he had the remedy for it… The scripture also teaches that!

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God also made the first sacrifice as something had to die to cloth Adam and Eve in animal skins, a type and shadow of the sacrifice his only son Jesus Christ made to cover our nakedness, by his righteousness and his righteousness alone…. Could have been a lamb slain but your guess is as good as mine…. Then God drove man out his Garden and place a barrier… Reading John Gill he mentioned the barrier was God himself preventing access to the tree of life where man could partake and live forever… But if I understand anything about scripture, the only one who could satisfy God and remove the barrier and satisfy his just and Holy Will was none other than the Son Of God our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ… That is where the doctrine of Sovereign Grace and Salvations come in not that we did anything to get it but that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did it for all his children by carrying out the will of God.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I know some are going to say see there is I came to Christ by my free will, I disagree God alone changed your heart and the Holy Spirit alone brought you… Scripture teaches that too!... Now you have heard how I view free will and know what I believe about it… I also know some are going to agree and some are not, that is nothing new on here… Me, I’m going to sit on the sidelines and see how this discussion unfolds if it does and maybe jump in if I have a mind to… Brother Glen

Can God lie?

Free will is a myth.

Christ's words settled it for me. An evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit, and a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

We all know that God made all things good, but He did not make all things uncorruptible. And so Adam, as a good man, could not bring forth the sin of disobedience any more than God could lie. Corruption had to set in, and a corrupt tree could not bring forth good fruit.

So when one talks of the Garden, and the Fall of man, one has to speak of the corrupting influence on Adam (and Eve).

 

[loDebar]

Can God lie?

Free will is a myth.

Christ's words settled it for me. An evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit, and a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

We all know that God made all things good, but He did not make all things uncorruptible. And so Adam, as a good man, could not bring forth the sin of disobedience any more than God could lie. Corruption had to set in, and a corrupt tree could not bring forth good fruit.

So when one talks of the Garden, and the Fall of man, one has to speak of the corrupting influence on Adam (and Eve).

Who made you post them if there is no free will?