I come against the evil of voter purges in Jesus name amen!

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

The laws, requiring voters to show an official photo ID, might be sensible in an ideal world where every citizen is provided with one, but in the real world the only photo ID commonly available is a driving licence.

Well that is not true. The only photo ID available is not a driving license. The state of North Carolina provides a state identification card to those who cannot drive. And then of course there is the voter registration card mailed to every voter when they register. I believe that would work for ID as well although it does not have a picture. You have to have a photo ID to buy beer or tobacco, cash a check, or catch a fish. Are you telling me it is not sensible to ask for one when you vote?

 

[Daisy]

The only case I know of where either party tried to disenfranchise eligible voters is in Florida where the democratic party tried to have the overseas military absantee ballets thrown out during the infamous recount of 2002. Is that what you are referring to? The article at the start of this thread dealt only with ineligible voters.

The article at the start of this thread stated, "Even after this decision Republican state election officials mistakenly or maliciously sent out more than 200,000 letters informing voters that they would in fact need a driving licence to vote". The link in the OP was to stories of illegal voter purges; that is, of voters being purged illegally. If you're not aware of that problem it's not because it hasn't been presented to you. It seems that 95,000 voters were purged in Florida 2000 and two years later the 95% which had been wrongly purged had not been reinstated.

Infamous recount of 2002? I had to look that one up. Apparently something like 108,000 absentee ballots were initially not added into the final tally - is that the one you mean? Did the recount change the outcome? Was there evidence it was done deliberately or had targeted the military?

There were a lot of problems in Florida 2002 election (linkie)
Most of them seem to center around the voting machines.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Yes that is the one I meant. There were a lot of problems with the Florida vote in 2002. What bothered me though was that the absentee votes did not get the attention the voting machines did. It was almost like they did not care. I had to vote absentee once while in Middle East and I would hate to think my vote did not count.

The opening link leads to several different stories. I was talking about the one ASLANSPAL and ScottJ both referenced. It dealt strictly with the Spanish flyer that advised illegal immigrants that it would be illegal for them to vote. Of course if they already broke the law getting into this country why should our laws discourage them?

If voters are purged illegally that is a problem. All voter lists should be purged in all areas. Low income or minority districts should not be purged any more often than any other district. I was purged off our local rolls last year and when I voted for Mayor in 2005 I had to vote a provincial ballot. Now I don't know how it works other places but if you are purged off the rolls here in NC and show up to vote they have to let you vote anyway even if your not on the roll. You vote on a provincial ballot form that is counted after they verify your voter status. If people are purged off that should not be they still get to vote here. Everyone legally entitled to vote should get that opportunity. My only problem is with the illegal voters. We need to make voter fraud a more serious crime. People who attempt to vote illegally should do serious jail time. People who break our laws have no right to participate in our government.

As for a Republican letter saying they had to have a drivers license to vote. Well that is a dirty trick and of course it is not true. If however the letter was just warning people that voter fraud is a crime I would be all for it.

 

[The Galatian]

Originally Posted by NCT
Why is it that only one party seems concerned about getting as many criminals to the polls as possible?

Let's see. The governor of Florida is a republican. His people rigged the system so that Hispanic felons were not removed from voting rolls. In Florida, most Hispanics are Cuban, and they generally vote Republican.

Does that give you a clue?

 

[JamieinNH]

But my question was directed to the complainers here: Do you have a solution?

I understand your question was directed at someone else, that was why I stated this to start with: "I will give you my opinion of your question."

I was just giving my opinion to your question.

As far as a solution, no I don't have one. It's not something I have given a great deal of thought to.

Do you have a solution?

 

[KenH]

Does that give you a clue?[/B]

Yes. Our default two-party system is pretty much broken.

I will be voting in this election but it will be with the least amount of enthusiasm that I have ever had when voting.

Oh well, I guess I can at least re-arrange my desk chair on the Titanic.

 

[carpro]

http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=154

Democratic Dirty Tricks Escalate
Democratic Lawyers Send Letters to Nader Oregon Petitioners Threatening Incarceration and $100,000 Fines

Washington, DC: Independent Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader today sharply criticized lawyers working in coalition with the Democratic Party, for threatening Nader/Camejo signature gatherers in Oregon.

“This is an escalation of the dirty tricks of the Democrats. Threatening signature gatherers with a felony, five years in jail, or a $100,000 fine is a direct attack on the right to petition protected by the Constitution,” said Nader. “The Democrats are showing they have no respect for democracy and will do anything to keep Nader/Camejo off the ballot. They also have no respect for the Constitutional rights to free speech, assembly, and petition when they are used in the electoral arena.”

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

hear, hear!


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/18/lkl.01.html

JOHN MACARTHUR, PASTOR, GRACE COMMUNITY CHURCH: Well, I think Jesus put it simply when he said, "My kingdom is not of this world." And I think what happens in the Republican party or the Democratic party or the United States Congress, the United States government is really irrelevant to the advancement of the Kingdom of God.

The message of Jesus is to go unto under all the world to make disciples, not make Republicans. and I think our message is a message that Jesus died and rose again to save us from our sins and death Hell. And that is the message. And evangelicals have convoluted message, sublimated that message to a political agenda, they have missed the point.

And in many ways we have turned the mission field into the enemy. Homosexuals are not our enemy. They are our mission field, like any other or all other sinners are.

yup, done tole him!

 

[Daisy]

http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=154

Democratic Dirty Tricks Escalate

Yes, that was wrong, but a different issue. Disqualifying candidates is a separate issue from disenfranchising voters. Here in New York, it is very difficult for a non-machine candidate to get on the ballot.

 

[Timsings]

The biggest problem with any proposed solution is that it will likely cost a good deal of money to implement. That could mean a tax increase at one or more levels. I suspect not too many people will be thrilled at that prospect, especially if they have no confidence in the slolution, whatever it might be.

Tim Reynolds

 

[carpro]

Yes, that was wrong, but a different issue. Disqualifying candidates is a separate issue from disenfranchising voters. Here in New York, it is very difficult for a non-machine candidate to get on the ballot.

Tell that to APAL.:smilewinkgrin:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1020scotus-voterID20-ON.html

Supreme Court upholds Arizona's photo ID law for elections

Amanda Crawford
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 20, 2006 03:44 PM

Arizona voters will have to present identification at the polls on Nov. 7 after all.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that Arizona can go ahead with requiring voters to present a photo ID, starting with next month's general election, as part of the Proposition 200 that voters passed in 2004. The ruling overturns an Oct. 5 decision by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which put the voter ID rules on hold this election cycle.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Carpo Bill Clinton would like to have a word with you

Bill Clinton pretty much nails you carpo....you are so blinded by ideaology as a right wing bobble-head. In fact I looked up the word Ideology and guess what it said.


Ideologue: Carpro:smilewinkgrin:

That debate, he said, has been sidelined by individuals who think they already have the answer. These individuals fail to listen to evidence or other views, and are unwilling to consider the consequences of their decisions, he added.
It's the difference between the words "philosophy" and "ideology," Clinton explained.
"If you have a philosophy, it generally pushes you in a certain direction or another," he said. When a person is open to discussion, argument, evidence and new learning, he said that individual may end up making a principled agreement with someone of a different philosophy.
"The problem with ideology," he added, is that "you already have your mind made up. You know all the answers. And that makes evidence irrelevant and argument a waste of time. So you tend to govern by assertion and attack."
He gave several recent examples of what he considers to be decisions made contrary to the "common good," including the Bush administration's effort to cut taxes while federal spending continued to increase, particularly for defense. These decisions resulted in a significant increase in the federal deficit, which means that the U.S. government is borrowing more money than ever from foreign entities such as China, Japan, Saudi Arabia and the United Kingdom, Clinton told the crowd.
He then questioned whether it was "in the interest of the common good" to borrow money from these countries to finance tax cuts for wealthy Americans.
We have to ask "from whom do we get the money and what are the consequences," he told the crowd.



It's not that everyone has to agree on every topic, he said, but there should be a consensus that "we should solve the problem based on what we think is the common good."


AMERICANS ARE TIRED OF IDEALOUGES THEY WANT PEOPLE AGREEING AND GETTING SOMETHING DONE! PEOPLE WHO DIVIDE SUCH AS THE BUSH CULTURE ARE ONLY OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND THE CRONYISM IT PROVIDES SO LIKE A DEMON GETTING READY TO BE CAST OUT THEY SPIT, SPIN AND SPEW SO AS TO HOLD ON TO POWER AND ALL THE FUTURE MONEY THE CAN HAUL IN UNDER THE IDEAOLOGY OF DIVIDING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

CLINTON JUST NAILED YOU CARPRO...LIKE A NEW TV SHOW!

YOU ARE THE IDEALOUGE

isn't it time to un park your brain and actually answer at least one question from Daisy ..come on you can do it just one!...you will feel better.:smilewinkgrin:

http://www.douglasdispatch.com/articles/2006/10/21/news/news2.txt

snippet:
The justices stressed in Friday's order that their action does not mean they believe the provisions of Proposition 200 are legal. But they said their decision was necessary to "allow the election to proceed.''


Perales said, though, that people without identification will be the ones disenfranchised this year.
"We know there are people who lack the necessary ID to vote,'' she said. "They're registered voters, they're qualified voters.'' For example, she said, senior citizens and the disabled, who do not drive, don't have access to driver licenses.


The evil of this is ..it targets the poor, elderly and diverse groups ..it really is tyranny of the majority ...in this nation we must protect the poor, elderly and diverse groups such as the Navajo...this last minute action and counter action just freezes the voters especially the the poor, elderly and minoritys...it makes them feel "whats the use...the system is fixed" the bush culture is not good for our nation it only divides ..instead of encouraging more voter involement it want to cherry pick to get the tyranny it so richley desires ..so as to rake in the money and power.

 

[hillclimber1]

Yes. Our default two-party system is pretty much broken.

I will be voting in this election but it will be with the least amount of enthusiasm that I have ever had when voting.

Oh well, I guess I can at least re-arrange my desk chair on the Titanic.

Are you still going to vote third party? Either Rush or Hannity said that the movement to keep Republicans home or vote third party may very well decide the outcome of the Supreme Court for the rest of America's future. And it is not yet finished in our (right wing constitutionalist) favor. We may have yet 2 more judges to appoint during Bush's term.

 

[KenH]

Are you still going to vote third party?

Minor party where available, or independent.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Do you have a solution?

Yes, I have a few ideas.

1. Make null and void all voter registrations, start over from scratch. As of January 1, 2007, no one is registered to vote.
2. Develop computer cross checks from state to state, including residences, names, SSNs, and criminal records.
3. Require voter registration in person, with a photo ID and proof of citizenship (birth certificate, passport, naturalization card).
4. Issue photo IDs including voting status.

Prior to each election, each name on the voter's registration list will be crosschecked with other voter registration lists (to prohibit registering in multiple states), with criminal data (to prohibit illegal felons), and with citizenship databases (to prohibit illegal aliens or unnaturalized residents), and with any other information that would render one ineligible to vote. A list will be printed no more than seven days prior to the election with all registered and eligible voters for each precinct. (This is already done; it is simply not cross-checked).

Each polling place will require photo ID (to be replaced each election cycle or perhaps at 10 year intervals; it can be a part of the driver's license (since they are already renewed every 3 to 4 years), but not automatically issued with the driver's license). No photo ID or no appearance on registration list, no vote. Period. No exceptions. Any failure to abide by this law will be prosecutable, both for the voter and the poll worker who allows it.

Each polling place will have three stations.
1. Check in, where photo ID and name is verified against registered voter list. Each person is given a sequentially numbered paper.
2. Polling station where votes are cast.
3. Check out, photo ID and name is verified against registered voter list, andwhere numbered paper is returned to register a vote has having been cast.
This will verify that there are no more ballots cast than people who showed up. It will also verify that the voter having checked in is the same one who checked out, and thereby verify that there is only one vote for person.

All absentee voting must be done in person at a city/county building, or consulate (if overseas), again with photo ID, and all necessary documentation.

Possible complaints:
1. Photo ID is the equivalent of a poll tax: We have already demonstrated that a four year renewal would cost just 7 cents a week, 25 cents a month, $10 every four years. You can find that much money in parking lots at shopping centers.
2. Disinfranchisment due to errors in list, etc: Disinfranchisement may happen in very limited cases. Those kinks can be worked out overtime. However, the danger of illegal voting is far greater than the danger of disenfranchisement. Seven days prior to the election, lists can be posted online or at city/county buildings where people can verify that they are on the list. If they believe they have been improperly omitted, they can appeal in person and writing to the local court.

It's not perfect, I am sure. But it is a solution ... and since some are ignoring the question, I throw this out for discussion. Make it better.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Wow, PL. Well thought out and implemented. I'll let you know if I come up with anything. :thumbs: