I consider myself Philadelphian

[rockytopva]

Hey Rocky!

I have enjoyed a lot of your posts.

When I first became a Christian and went to church I was taught by more than one pastor the time after Christ has been broken up into seven periods based on the characteristics of the seven churches in Revelation chapters 1-3.

Each of those church ages as described in Revelation does have characteristics of certain things in the history of those time periods.

But there are also things from the other six churches in each of those periods which are not emphasized in that kind of teaching.

You can find them for yourself in the history of the Church if you look carefully but you don't really have to.

All a person really needs to do is read those chapters and look for the verses that actually say those seven churches represent seven periods of history.

The couple of times I've read through those three chapters I missed the verses that say that those churches represent seven periods of church history.

Please show me the verses that say that the churches represent seven historical periods.

Thank you.

Revelation starts out talking time periods...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: - Revelation 1:1

In which I take as ages, or congregations as they are still ages. I was reading of a decision of a lady to become a nun and thought within myself she is doing her part in keeping the Thyatirean candlestick, or church, burning. There is also a thread in this forum called, "Are some Baptists closer to Assembly of God than Reformed?" In which I wonder if the churches in question are not Laodicean.

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

All of this, though, is a mystery, in which I have done my best. I believe it was the intention of this passage to address the many issues of the church that would come to pass.

Love will not be constrain'd by mastery.
When mast'ry comes, the god of love anon
Beateth his wings, and, farewell, he is gone.
Love is a thing as any spirit free.- Geoffrey Chaucer Canterbury Tales

It seems like once a denomination feels like it arrives it is all over with and they lose the Philadelphian spirit that once made them great. I love the old Methodist church but that revival is long over with!

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations that would be birthed in time
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado? And this also highlights the importance of the seven churches that would come to pass.

 

[rockytopva]

Another thing unique to the mystery of the Philadelphian candlestick is that wonderful hymns came out of this congregation. Fanny Crosby, March 24, 1820 – February 12, 1915, wrote something like 8,000 hymns. Barney E. Warren (1867 - 1951) penned "Joy Unspeakable and Full of Glory" in 1900. In my church this was sung with much heart. The song below starts out slow but picks up in tempo all sung with much heart and in Philadelphian spirit...

I have found His grace is all complete, He supplieth every need!
While I sit and learn at Jesus' feet, I am free, yes, free indeed!
It is joy unspeakable and full of glory, Full of glory, full of glory!
It is joy unspeakable and full of glory, Oh, the half has never yet been told.
I have found the pleasure I once craved, It is joy and peace within!
What a wondrous blessing, I am saved from the awful gulf of sin!
I have found that hope so bright and clear, Living in the realm of grace;
Oh, the Savior's presence is so near, I can see His smiling face!
I have found the joy no tongue can tell, How its waves of glory roll;
It is like a great o'erflowing well, Springing up within my soul!

 

[robycop3]

Revelation starts out talking time periods...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: - Revelation 1:1

In which I take as ages, or congregations as they are still ages. I was reading of a decision of a lady to become a nun and thought within myself she is doing her part in keeping the Thyatirean candlestick, or church, burning. There is also a thread in this forum called, "Are some Baptists closer to Assembly of God than Reformed?" In which I wonder if the churches in question are not Laodicean.

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

All of this, though, is a mystery, in which I have done my best. I believe it was the intention of this passage to address the many issues of the church that would come to pass.

Love will not be constrain'd by mastery.
When mast'ry comes, the god of love anon
Beateth his wings, and, farewell, he is gone.
Love is a thing as any spirit free.- Geoffrey Chaucer Canterbury Tales

It seems like once a denomination feels like it arrives it is all over with and they lose the Philadelphian spirit that once made them great. I love the old Methodist church but that revival is long over with!

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations that would be birthed in time
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado? And this also highlights the importance of the seven churches that would come to pass.

Well, ACTUALLY, the candlestix are the churches to whom Jesus sent letters. The stars are the messengers Jesus sent to each of those churches. The seals are for the events leading up to the eschatological events, & for some of those events themselves.

History shows that the characteristics of each of those churches have remained in succeeding churches right upta this day, as well as having been in other churches of the time the Rev was given. There have NOT been any other church ages besides this "age of grace" instituted by Jesus during His earthly ministry.

During the "Philadelphian" age, as defined by those who believe that false doctrine, three of the major pseudo/quasi-Christian cults arose-the LDS, SDA, & JW. Of course, there were & are other such cults, bit those 3 are the biggest, as well as a branch of charismatic pentecostalism, complete with "faith healers" that started with Seymour, Parham, Wigglesworth, & others. (Benny Hinn is chief among them now.)

Time for you to abandon the false doctrine of "church ages" in light of Scripture & history. There was a request made by another for you to supply Bible verses supporting church ages. Are you gonna try to answer?

 

[rockytopva]

Chaucer's attitudes toward what was then the Catholic Church should not be confused with his attitudes toward Christianity. He seems to have respected and admired Christians in what I believe was in the Thyatirean age, and to have been one himself, though he also recognised that many people in the church were venal and corrupt. He writes in Canterbury Tales, "now I beg all those that listen to this little treatise, or read it, that if there be anything in it that pleases them, they thank our Lord Jesus Christ for it, from whom proceeds all understanding and goodness."

And also noting so many who thought they had arrived, “Love will not be constrain'd by mastery. When mast'ry comes, the god of love anon Beateth his wings, and, farewell, he is gone! Love is a thing as any spirit free.”- Geoffrey Chaucer Canterbury Tales

I wonder if many of us will be forced to live uniquely as Chaucer, as we will miss the church we were saved in during these Laodicean times!

 

[robycop3]

Chaucer's attitudes toward what was then the Catholic Church should not be confused with his attitudes toward Christianity. He seems to have respected and admired Christians in what I believe was in the Thyatirean age, and to have been one himself, though he also recognised that many people in the church were venal and corrupt. He writes in Canterbury Tales, "now I beg all those that listen to this little treatise, or read it, that if there be anything in it that pleases them, they thank our Lord Jesus Christ for it, from whom proceeds all understanding and goodness."

And also noting so many who thought they had arrived, “Love will not be constrain'd by mastery. When mast'ry comes, the god of love anon Beateth his wings, and, farewell, he is gone! Love is a thing as any spirit free.”- Geoffrey Chaucer Canterbury Tales

I wonder if many of us will be forced to live uniquely as Chaucer, as we will miss the church we were saved in during these Laodicean times!

There's no such thing as "Laodicean times, Thiatyrian times ", etc. They exist only in the minds of mprofessional taletellers & those who believe their garbage, such as yourself.

That "7 church ages" stuff is a LIE. It's been pointed out to you several times here by several people, & you cannot prove the first word of it from history, & Scripture does NOT support it either. Thus, it's proven to be a LIE!

You know what God says about liars. So, you know what someone who deliberately tells a lie is. As you know the "7 CA" thingie is a lie, you should know what it makes YOU if you tell that lie again. I hope you take THIS to heart & drop that false doctrine ASAP!

I don't dislike you; I dislike that LIE/FALSE DOCTRINE someone infected you with. Please pray fervently, & ask the HOLY SPIRIT to teach you the TRUTH!

 

[rockytopva]

There's no such thing as "Laodicean times, Thiatyrian times ", etc. They exist only in the minds of mprofessional taletellers & those who believe their garbage, such as yourself.

That "7 church ages" stuff is a LIE. It's been pointed out to you several times here by several people, & you cannot prove the first word of it from history, & Scripture does NOT support it either. Thus, it's proven to be a LIE!

You know what God says about liars. So, you know what someone who deliberately tells a lie is. As you know the "7 CA" thingie is a lie, you should know what it makes YOU if you tell that lie again. I hope you take THIS to heart & drop that false doctrine ASAP!

I don't dislike you; I dislike that LIE/FALSE DOCTRINE someone infected you with. Please pray fervently, & ask the HOLY SPIRIT to teach you the TRUTH!

You take your doctrine outside your congregation and see how quickly you are refuted! My dad taught at a Lutheran church the need of being Born Again and the elders called him in meeting and told him salvation is attained via infant baptism and there was no need of further salvation! I told him he was unlikely to break them of their Sardisean church age ways!

 

[robycop3]

You take your doctrine outside your congregation and see how quickly you are refuted! My dad taught at a Lutheran church the need of being Born Again and the elders called him in meeting and told him salvation is attained via infant baptism and there was no need of further salvation! I told him he was unlikely to break them of their Sardisean church age ways!

There are hundreds on this very board outside my congregation, and not one except s few sect members like yourself have offered one word of refutation.

Please show us any Bible verse(s) supporting the doctrine of "7 church ages". Also, explain why history doesn't agree with your "model".

In truth, the whole doctrine is phony as a Ford Corvette. You've been suckered in by some charlatan(s). And please think about what I told you yesterday about DELIBERATELY TELLING A KNOWN LIE!

 

[rockytopva]

There are hundreds on this very board outside my congregation, and not one except s few sect members like yourself have offered one word of refutation.

Please show us any Bible verse(s) supporting the doctrine of "7 church ages". Also, explain why history doesn't agree with your "model".

In truth, the whole doctrine is phony as a Ford Corvette. You've been suckered in by some charlatan(s). And please think about what I told you yesterday about DELIBERATELY TELLING A KNOWN LIE!

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

 

[robycop3]

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

Right, all the churches to which Jesus sent letters. Now, how about some Scripture saying there were 7 church ages?

(Remember what was posted about DELIBERATELY TELLING A LIE!)

 

[rockytopva]

Right, all the churches to which Jesus sent letters. Now, how about some Scripture saying there were 7 church ages?

(Remember what was posted about DELIBERATELY TELLING A LIE!)

Because the history matches the churches...

Messianic - First congregation initially did not want to eat with the gentiles
Martyr - Foxes has the Roman persecutions as ten (ye shall have tribulation ten days - Revelation 2:10)
Orthodox - Pergos is a tower, needed in the dark ages
Catholic - The woman Jezebel - You would not have wanted to have spoken out against her in her time!
Protestant - Sardis is a gem - This congregation was elegant and hard shelled
Revived - With revival came evangelist and wonderful hymns, especially in the 1800's
Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?


What I would look for -

1. Falling away with many leaving denominational churches
2. Increase in non-denominational churches
3. More praise and worship type music replacing the hymns
4. The rapture of the church

 

[robycop3]

Because the history matches the churches...

Messianic - First congregation initially did not want to eat with the gentiles
Martyr - Foxes has the Roman persecutions as ten (ye shall have tribulation ten days - Revelation 2:10)
Orthodox - Pergos is a tower, needed in the dark ages
Catholic - The woman Jezebel - You would not have wanted to have spoken out against her in her time!
Protestant - Sardis is a gem - This congregation was elegant and hard shelled
Revived - With revival came evangelist and wonderful hymns, especially in the 1800's
Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?


What I would look for -

1. Falling away with many leaving denominational churches
2. Increase in non-denominational churches
3. More praise and worship type music replacing the hymns
4. The rapture of the church

If ALL those churches hadn't existed at the same time, Jesus wouldn'ts sent'em all letters at the same time had they not all existed then.

Please show us some SCRIPTURES supporting 7 church ages; otherwise you're telling a proven lie.

 

[rockytopva]

If ALL those churches hadn't existed at the same time, Jesus wouldn'ts sent'em all letters at the same time had they not all existed then.

Please show us some SCRIPTURES supporting 7 church ages; otherwise you're telling a proven lie.

The book of Revelation predicts that which will transpire in time - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: - Revelation 1:1
We are in the Laodicean Age - Which began with the prosperity of the last age...
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: - Revelation 3:17
For the love of money is the root of all evil... - 1 Timothy 6:10

Even in churches many will look down on others for not reaching a state of material gain. We are also in the midst of lukewarm times, which has created a great falling away, and will lead up to the rapture of the church...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

 

[robycop3]

The book of Revelation predicts that which will transpire in time - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: - Revelation 1:1
We are in the Laodicean Age - Which began with the prosperity of the last age...
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: - Revelation 3:17
For the love of money is the root of all evil... - 1 Timothy 6:10

Even in churches many will look down on others for not reaching a state of material gain. We are also in the midst of lukewarm times, which has created a great falling away, and will lead up to the rapture of the church...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

No such thing as a "Laodicean age". WHY DO YOU REPEAT THAT LIE? You KNOW what God thinks of those who deliberately repeat a lie, which is EXACTLY what you're doing, as you've been shown there were NO seven church ages! !

And the KJV mistranslates 1 Tim. 6:10. The CORRECT translation of that sentence of it is: "for the love of silver(miney is *A* root of *ALL SORTS* of evil."

While it's likely not your fault, your theology sure is a mess !

 

[rockytopva]

No such thing as a "Laodicean age". WHY DO YOU REPEAT THAT LIE? You KNOW what God thinks of those who deliberately repeat a lie, which is EXACTLY what you're doing, as you've been shown there were NO seven church ages! !

And the KJV mistranslates 1 Tim. 6:10. The CORRECT translation of that sentence of it is: "for the love of silver(miney is *A* root of *ALL SORTS* of evil."

While it's likely not your fault, your theology sure is a mess !

The "Laodicean Age" ... Food for thought...

Sardis - Calvinism was popular
Philadelphia - Arminianism was popular
Laodicea - Who is John Calvin? Who is Jacobus Arminius? Especially as there is no Sunday School!

If you have not seen the changes that this Laodicean age has brought to pass just wait a little as Joe Biden gets a hold of this country!

 

[SGO]

Hey Rocky.
Did you forget to show me the verses in the bible that actually say seven ages?
Are you trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat by not showing the verses that actually state your belief?

 

[rockytopva]

Hey Rocky.
Did you forget to show me the verses in the bible that actually say seven ages?
Are you trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat by not showing the verses that actually state your belief?

The book of Revelation predicts that which will transpire in time - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: - Revelation 1:1

 

[rockytopva]

If you guys cant see the changes I am talking about just give Joe Biden and Kamala D. Harris a few years! It is going to set us up for the destruction stated in the later chapters of Revelation and will be like something out of a JRR Tolkien story in which Morgoth pours his mighty force of orcs, balrogs, dragons, and such out of Angband into Beleriand and utter destruction!

 

[SGO]

The book of Revelation predicts that which will transpire in time - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: - Revelation 1:1

Thanks for trying.

 

[rockytopva]

I just came from fireworks at Liberty University. Jonathan Falwell, who I understand is also pastor of Liberty University as well as the Thomas Road Baptist Church did a wonderful job narrating the event.

I would have no problem considering Jonathan Falwell of Philadelphian variety. I am deeply disappointed in his brother Jerry Falwell Jr and think it is typical Laodicean spirit in need of rebuke and chastening.

 

[Salty]

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