"I could sing 7-11s 24-7...." (branch of New Hymns thread)

You Light up my Life

and

On Eagle's Wings

are 2 secular songs

that can be sung to the Lord and for the

Glory of the Lord.

No tomatoes, please.

I will sing of the mercies of the Lord forever, I will sing, I will sing....

La-la-la.

 

I posted this on another thread, but it appears that the ones there have come here, so I'll repost it here. This is in opposition to the ones who feel songs like "I could sing of your love forever" are inappropriate. I am mystified how singing over and over how wonderful Gods love is could be unacceptable. Regarding not having "Jesus Christ" in the lyrics to these kind of songs, dont you think its pretty obvious who we are singing about in the worship service of a Christian fellowship???

I responded on one of the "hymns" threads because I absolutly love the old hymns, filled with great doctrinal truth. But I love praise choruses as well.

Why must it be "either/or"?? Why not both?

Hey, I think some songs are exceedingly good, BECAUSE OF the repetitive nature of the words. Singing the same words over and over is sometimes a wonderful thing, and can sometimes make a song more meaningful than otherwise, if the ones singing words of praise to God really mean them as they sing them.

We all know the Psalms were originally set to music, so go and check out Psalm 148 and Psalm 150.

Also, check out Revelation 4:8.

It appears clear to me that God LOVES repetitious lyrics to songs, sung over and over again, if the words being repeated over and over are worthy of being repeated!

I agree with God on this!

(But again, I also love the rich and meaningful words to the great hymns, as well!)

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

Thanks Mike... well put.

 

I hope you're getting counseling for that...

If the phrase "Healer" is too deep for some an explanation can be given.

To God Be The Glory... </font>[/QUOTE]To God be the glory, great things He has done;
So loved He the world that He gave us His Son...

This song isn't TO God, it's ABOUT God, as are all the other hymns.

Which is why you don't sing the worse songs. Do you sing the worse hymns? No, you just ignore them(Or you've never heard of them because they died out years ago). Do the same with P&W.

 

Not ALL hymns, Jonathan... most, granted, are horizontal songs (edifying the Body, talking about God, encouraging the congregation to praise). Vertical songs (or songs directly to God) are more prevalent in today's modern worship.

Here are a few examples of Vertical Hymns:

Abide With Me
Be Thou My Vision
Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing
Great is Thy Faithfulness
Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah
Holy, Holy, Holy
How Great Thou Art
Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise
Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee
O God, Our Help in Ages Past
Savior, Like a Shepherd Lead Us

The "problem" comes when we don't like the archaic "King James" English. Our society is to the point of shunning "old" things, when in all actuality there is powerful messages present in these songs and many others.

I love modern praise and worship... including "Draw Me Close". My God knows when I'm singing to Him, even if my cat doesn't know the difference. I still hold the opinion that a steady diet of both is a good and potentially powerful combination in worship. Just my humble opinion.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

The thing that irritates me the most about people who are stuck in the 18th century era of Christian music is that in many cases the songs they bash are in large extent exact quotes from scripture.

"Shout to the Lord all ye earth let us sing, power and majesty praise to the king. Mountains bow down and the seas will roar at the sound of your name."


I often wonder when was the last time they read the Psalms? David didn't always identify God when he wrote a Psalm. Go look at it and see how many, if they were taken out of the Scripture, have not identifed God as "God"

 

Hello Everyone!

I've been following this thread and all of the participants have made some very good points,but something important has been over-looked.

One reason why contemporary songs seem "shallow and repetitious" is that reading great literature
and writing rich literary prose isn't taught in schools anymore.Also,expository writing isn't taught either and this leads to being unable to express oneself or one's ideas on paper. Add to this that American English has been turned into a tasteless,"dumbed down" gruel...

If one looks at the traditional hymns and the times that they were written in and the biographies of the composers/lyricists,you find that some were established poets,clergy,
theologians,and well-read lay persons as well as musicians. Also,they were well-rooted in Scripture and in doctrine,letting the "word of Christ dwell richly" in them and then writing it out in the music and words. There was no
"dumbing down" of the language,and many knew Greek and Latin too.

I'm not "knocking" the current songs that are out there because there are some really fine songs out there,but I believe that today's Christians can write contemporary expository hymns and songs since we "should admonish and teach one another through hymns,spiritual songs,
and psalms" and have such a rich heritage of hymnody to draw from.

In Christ,

Dale

 

Dale,

Great post! So true.

 

The problem was that the words went over the heads of many of their contemporaries. Personally, I believe that songs of praise should be able to be understood by all the congregation, learned and unlearned. Even today, many of the hymns goes completely over the head of a lot of our congregation. However, the praise and worship songs most often do not.

Of course, many people also complain about the newer translations which are easier to understand than the KJV, saying that we just aren't as poetic anymore. My personal feeling is the easier to understand, the better.

 

But what is the language of today? It's not "thee's," "thou's" and a myriad of other words. We live in a culture of "ain't", "BRB," "LOL", and so on. English has changed, just as it did as it evolved from a Germanic language to what Shakespeare used.

Do you use current events as well? There's a huge pool to draw from when it comes to illustrations. The important part is that the sermon is crafted so that the congregation can understand it. What good is a gospel that goes over the head of the listener?

Just as modern language does. Have you read the Message? I've talked to several people who said that the Bible makes sense after reading the contemporary version. And isn't that what it is all about? The person being able to comprehend and respond to the message, and then being able to share that with the world?

It's not abou dumbing down. It's about relevance to our culture. Personally, I'd rather meet the people where they are instead of hoping that they'd reach my level.

 

I disagree,Scott....we *reach* others ,not by making worship style and songs suitable to others....we reach them by sharing the gospel and living out the Word in our lives. Then we should disciple the new converts to understand more and more about God's word,so that they do grow to understand the great indepth Truths about our Wonderful Saviour. We should teach them to understand...this is what discipling is.

How sad to make church suitable for unbelievers...it should be an environment of grace for the unbeliever,but also an environment of the excellence and majesty of a Holy God. Not a God we can jive with....

Your disagreeing but loving friend,

Molly

 

But inherent in your words is that the other methods of worship are not teaching these indepth truths. Many of them do. The language is just different.

And isn't God a welcoming God? Is He not a God who reaches out to all people? Should our churches not follow the example of our Saviour? I believe that the church should be a sanctuary for all people. For many people, the church is where they respond to the gospel. It is my desire that our church be welcoming and indeed be an environment of grace.

 

Scott,

Welcoming,warm,loving,polite,and kind...yes,aboslutely! I'm not arguing wtih that! Godly people should be those things and more to all...believers and unbelievers alike.

But,church *corporate* worship services should be about glorifying God...not focused on relevancy and making church suitable to those who do not know the God we love. They can hear the Word,see our authentic worship,etc...I am glad for them to be a part of that. We do not make changes,though to draw others...the Lord does this through His word....the Word of God is what I trust to do this...I do not put credit on anything man does...To me churches who use style and music to draw others are not trusting in God to do this. They are trusting in a current style or trend to attract,and then when it works in man's eyes,we pat ourselves on the back and say,"Look what Jesus has done".

I'm not against you,Scott...but I am concerned about this way of thinking...I believe it is allowing man's ways to dominate...it is saying "God's Word is not enough...we must design a plan that will work better....we must make church more like them,so they will come....we must change the music to be more like what is on the radio,so they will like Jesus,we must make preaching more light,topical,so that they will not get bored with things they do not understand,we must make church more like a socila club,so that everyone feels like they belong"....the list goes on and on and before we know it,church has little spiritual depth and no one really knows how to live godly because they are not being taught that....

As for me,I trust God's word and desire to hear it preached and taught so that people are convicted to live for God....to be a light in the world...I know the power is in the Word,not in techniques and styles....trends will come and go....fads may make a difference for a moment,but God's word will stand for eternity.



Friends in Christ,

Molly

 

And how is using praise and worship music not abou glorifying God? How about this: Should our music be relevant to believers?

What if God is the One behind these changes? Is it, then, okay?

What if it works in God's eyes, and we proclaim, "Look what Christ has done!"?

Logical fallacy - slippery slope argument. The fact is that in many churches that use praise and worship music, people ARE being taught how to live godly lives. In fact, they make worship a part of their lives because they can relate to it.

Most people who prefer praise and worship music do as well.

Honest question: If a missionary begins a church in sub-saharan Africa, what kind of music should he use with the new believers? Should he use simple songs of faith that use the native music? Or should he introduce "proper" Westernized hymns?

 

All of your arguments I have heard before...I have considered all of what you are saying and I still do not accept the philosophy behind seeker sensitive style churches that change the style to see growth...I'm not against a certain kind of song...I'm against the philosophy that regulates scripture to a lower place in the church,all for the seeker. Most churches that have made these changes,if you ask them was for the unbeliever...or it was for Joe,who just likes the beat of that song because he listens to that kind of music on the radio...these are not legitimate reasons to me.


All in all...I'm not opposed to new songs or even certain musical instruments....I'm opposed to a seeker sensitive pragmatic view that undermines the true power of scripture....and believe me,I realize churches who do this would never say they treat scripture any differently...but if an apple tree says it is an apple tree,then there will be apples...if a church is sold out to God's word and is doctrinally correct,it will be evident,we won't have to look far. But,unfortunately in our world these kinds of churches are few and far between.


Great discernment is needed today in the area of church philosophy,music,and preaching. We need to get back to the basics of the great preachers of old....Spurgeon,JC Ryle,Jonathan Edwards...A.W. Pink...these men were sold out to the teaching of God's word and knew it great power to change the hearts of sinful men. Oh,that we could be a people focused on this instead of *I Like that song* nonsense....it is soooo not about that!

Good discussion!
Molly

 

This is fine if you do not accept it. But this does not make it wrong. Let us also remember that every church has a specific audience that they are geared towards. Simply put, seeker-sensitive churches target the non-believers. For many churches, their audience is the "already convinced." The one mission of the church that Christ gave above all was to go and make disciples. We are to seek and save those who are lost. If that is the primary goal of a specific local church, then this church will often end up as a seeker-sensitive one.

Seeker-sensitive churches do not do that. Why do you say that they do?

Every church goes through changes. Some added air-conditioning to make the congregation more confortable. Is this legitimate? Some churches have added padded pews. Is this legitimate? Change isn't bad. When the change causes Jesus Christ to be regulated to a lesser place, then I would say that it is wrong change.

So what specific examples are you thinking of? Do you not agree that people who are coming to salvation are a type of fruit?

Spurgeon, Ryle, Edwards, and Pink lived in much different times. Such messages do not work in today's age. People and culture have changed. Our job as believers is to make the gospel culturally relevant, just as Pink and Spurgeon did. We have to be led by the Spirit when we preach or lead worship.

Good discussion!
Molly [/QB][/QUOTE]

 

This is where I have to draw the line....we do not have to make scripture relevant! This is not our job,it already is relevant to everything pertaining to life and godliness....who are we to think mere man can make holy scriptures more relevant....your walking on shaky ground here,Scott.

These old guys you think are so outdated...listen to what they say,it is pertinent to the church of today...there messages are biblical and that,my friend,never goes out of fashion in the true believer's heart. Sorry you think so.....


Shocked
Molly