I got myself in trouble

[Amy.G]

Yesterday in SS class we were discussing Romans 1. Three times in this chapter it says God "gave them up".

God gave them up to uncleanness. Rom. 1:24

God gave them up to vile affections. Rom. 1:26

God gave them up to a reprobate mind. Rom. 1:28


The teacher (it's a women's class) was saying that we have to be careful that we don't drift into these bad behaviors. I said that it was not about Christians, but was about people who repeatedly reject God even though He has revealed Himself to them. Eventually He will give them up or cut them off so to speak as a judgment against them and at that point it is impossible for them to seek God or repent, leaving them lost.

Eyeballs began to pop out of their sockets at my statement. One said "God NEVER cuts anyone off!!". I said well He did Pharaoh.

I have checked various commentaries and my view seems to be orthodox. Matthew Henry makes it the clearest.


Am I wrong? I think I have offended my class mates.

 

[Shortandy]

No you are not wrong. Its what the scripture says in Romans 1.

 

[annsni]

LOL - I guess they've never actually read the Bible, huh??? :BangHead:

 

[abcgrad94]

You didn't say anything wrong. It's in scripture!

 

[Baptist Believer]

I said that it was not about Christians, but was about people who repeatedly reject God even though He has revealed Himself to them. Eventually He will give them up or cut them off so to speak as a judgment against them and at that point it is impossible for them to seek God or repent, leaving them lost.

Am I wrong?

Nope.

That's pretty much the primary thrust of Romans 1.

I think I have offended my class mates.

I suspect scripture has offended your classmates.

We can be obnoxious about our knowledge of scripture, but I doubt you did anything wrong. In fact, you are helping them come to terms with the scripture.

Good work! :wavey:

 

[saturneptune]

Amy, this is an excellent thread you have started. Of course the Lord can hand them over to a reprobate mind. He is the Lord. I do not know whether or not it would be against the nature of the Lord to open the door again at some later point, but that would be His business. This is going to be a great discussion.

 

[Amy.G]

Thank you guys so much!!! I have just been sick over this. I came home from church yesterday and studied it out again and came to the same conclusion as I said in class.

You're right Ann. Some of our class do not study the bible.

 

[freeatlast]

Yesterday in SS class we were discussing Romans 1. Three times in this chapter it says God "gave them up".

God gave them up to uncleanness. Rom. 1:24

God gave them up to vile affections. Rom. 1:26

God gave them up to a reprobate mind. Rom. 1:28


The teacher (it's a women's class) was saying that we have to be careful that we don't drift into these bad behaviors. I said that it was not about Christians, but was about people who repeatedly reject God even though He has revealed Himself to them. Eventually He will give them up or cut them off so to speak as a judgment against them and at that point it is impossible for them to seek God or repent, leaving them lost.

Eyeballs began to pop out of their sockets at my statement. One said "God NEVER cuts anyone off!!". I said well He did Pharaoh.

I have checked various commentaries and my view seems to be orthodox. Matthew Henry makes it the clearest.


Am I wrong? I think I have offended my class mates.

If the truth offends then so be it. Scripture is clear that there is a point when God can and will cut people off even making them believe the lie. 2Thess 2:11-12

 

[annsni]

Thank you guys so much!!! I have just been sick over this. I came home from church yesterday and studied it out again and came to the same conclusion as I said in class.

You're right Ann. Some of our class do not study the bible.

Unfortunately, there are many who are the same way. They have these ideas about God and how He's just loving and accepting of everyone and He's kind of like Santa sitting in the sky responding to our whims. But He's not. He's God. He's just. He's holy and He's righteous. BIG difference.

 

[Amy.G]

Unfortunately, there are many who are the same way. They have these ideas about God and how He's just loving and accepting of everyone and He's kind of like Santa sitting in the sky responding to our whims. But He's not. He's God. He's just. He's holy and He's righteous. BIG difference.

I think that may be part of the problem. Emotion is at play here. It's hard to admit that someone we love may not ever be saved. But God is just as well as loving.

It's a sobering passage and I'm afraid that a lot of people today have no fear of God. They just want to see Him as Santa, like you said.

 

[sag38]

Amy, count youself lucky if that's the only time you got yourself in trouble at church. Try being a pastor!!!

 

[Jerome]

I Cor. 6:9-11

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[webdog]

Amy, I think your answer was excellent. Why aren't you teaching the class?

I might have a slightly different take on "give them up". I think we can be hardened to the point we will not seek God and this is how He designed man to be. Hence when it is stated "God hardens", he is allowing the natural design to take place.

I've used this analogy in the past. If you ignore your alarm clock enough morning after morning, day after day...eventually you will not even hear it at all. Does God deliberately harden hearts other than this? I'm sure He does, but I believe the majority to be by allowing the natural process to take place.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy, count youself lucky if that's the only time you got yourself in trouble at church. Try being a pastor!!!

:laugh:

If I tried being a pastor I really would be in trouble!



Thanks to you all. You have made me feel much better.

 

[Amy.G]

I Cor. 6:9-11

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I'm sorry. What is your point?

 

[Jerome]

John MacArthur:

In 1 Corinthians chapter 6 you have a list that's almost identical to Romans chapter 1. It says, "Be not deceived, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, none of these shall inherit the Kingdom of God." It's almost an identical list to Romans 1. And then it says "And such were some of you but you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." It's those kind of people that He want to redeem, do you see? So He has abandoned men, yes. But He calls man back to Himself.

at that point it is impossible for them to seek God or repent, leaving them lost.

 

[Amy.G]

He has abandoned men, yes. But He calls man back to Himself.

Of course God calls sinners to Him or no one could be saved. But God only abandons people as an act of judgment. At least that's what I read in scripture.


I like John MacArthur but I don't agree with him on everything.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Of course God calls sinners to Him or no one could be saved. But God only abandons people as an act of judgment. At least that's what I read in scripture.

I agree Amy!

God's Spirit will not always strive with man:

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Before God destroyed the earth with the flood, He gave man 120 years to repent.

We are living in the Dispensation of Grace....but this Dispensation will end and then God's wrath will be poured out on those who rejected the gift of grace in the Lord Jesus Christ. Judgment is coming.....get right or get left!

 

[Robert Snow]

Good answer Amy. The only question I have is, the same word translated "reprobate" in Rom. 1 is also translated, castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:27 (KJV)

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

I don't think Paul could have become a reprobate, but perhaps the context shows you to be correct. It might be that just as the lost sinner who says to God, leave me alone in my sin, I will not repent! The reprobation is God doing just that.

Maybe Paul was saying that, as a Christian, he didn't want to put himself in a position where God would not use him any longer in His service.

Either way this is not a position a person should be in, lost or saved!

 

[John of Japan]

I once heard SBC evangelist J. Harold Smith preach his famous sermon, "God's Three Deadlines." You can find a brief outline of it here: http://www.thischristianjourney.com...neralpages/Outlines/God's_Three_Deadlines.htm
You can also listen to it at various places on the Internet, or watch him preach it. Here's a Google search that gives some of those places: http://www.google.com/#q=God's+Thre...ved=0CCgQqwQ&bav=on.1,or.&fp=eebb40ab4c289d6b

It's a very powerful sermon, and I think it's Biblical. As can be seen in the explanation on the website, Dr. Smith gives three cases where God "cuts off" people:

(1) The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is the unpardonable sin, since if you drive the Holy Spirit away you have no hope of salvation.

(2) Sinning away your day of grace. This means that when a person rejects God over and over again, the Holy Spirit finally stops convicting him of sin. In Pharoah's case, a chronology of the case shows that it is clear that he first hardened his own heart, so later in the story God hardened his heart.

(3) For a Christian, there is a "sin unto death." That is, if a Christian willfully and repeatedly sins, God may take him home to Heaven so that His cause is no longer hindered.