I Have a Question

Hey,I'll go along with that WD.

 

Rippon and webdog have a good suggestion. Here's why I agree.

When you go visit a church, you're going to get a pretty good feel for things. You'll have an opportunity to experience their worship, hear the pastor preach, maybe sit in on a Sunday School class, hear the choir sing.

Now, if the pastor is on the ball, he'll get your visitor's card, pick up and phone and call you. He might even want to come and visit you. At the very least you'll get to meet him personally, at his place our yours.

If you don't get that call, that in itself may tell you all you need to know.

 

I'm sure there has to be something within your orbit. But you'll have to compromise on lesser issues. Finding a PB-like Church you can scratch. The Lord has something close enough that you won't be spending an arm and a leg on gasoline to get there. Visit churches even before you call a given pastor.

 

What part of NJ do you live in?

This preacher is just learning reformed theology, and so are you. Go learn together?

 

I would venture to say that 99.9% of non cal pastors do not want to "turn you into" an Arminian. That's silly.

 

Steve's problem is real. Though there "might" be a church somewhere that can meet his expectations, or though he might change a few of his expectations so as to unite with some local congregation, in some areas of the nation north of the Ohio River, church pickings are slim indeed.

If it were me in that scenario (and it has been) I would do one of two things, I would either learn to live with some of the cultural issues (music, etc.) in a local church that at least teaches the Word with reasonable accuracy, or I would start a new congregation, which is not that difficult.

As a for instance, my wife and I are now involved with one of the more dynamic gospel-centered new churches in the nation. Our multiple pastors preach with a fire and respect for the Word and for a sovereign God. We have a music program that is beyond description, with songs and albums often topping the itunes charts in their category. We have multiple, multiple church starts in action, are radically changing neighborhoods. Money is coming in, lives are being changed, and there is SO much activity that one must pick and chose participation levels because there is no way to even begin to keep track of all that we are doing on any given day.

If we were to transfer to another area the culture shock of moving from this church to some smaller congregation, where "plink and plank and plunk" music style from 1940s hymnal, a pastor who last cracked open a new book when he graduated Bible college in the 1960s, and a congregation that still thinks that $5 in the collection plate on Sunday is their Christian duty, would be difficult at best. We could look and look and never find another church like we left, for there, simply, are not many like that (yet). Efforts to bring the new church up to speed would be met with derision, and we would probably end up home alone on most Sundays.

Even if we went out and started a new congregation, it would be years before even something close to what we had would form and become active. I've started new churches, I know how it works, and how "alone" one is in a new town, with the barest minimum of friends and Christian brotherhood, and the cost of driving over 75 miles to the closest church that at least meets some needs. Been there, done that. It is not an easy way to go!

So, in Steve's case, his search is real, and his needs are real, and it is likely that the number of churches that fit his needs are probably very few indeed.

I am a little questioning about the "primitive Baptist" aspect, however, as Steve's testimony suggests that he has only been a Christian believer for the past 16-18 months. How is it that "primitive" Baptist is the only expression that fits the bill?

 

Actually, no, you are incorrect... They do want you to adopt their theology, just as see often here on the board. I've been in congregations in both directions and had to leave one church because of that very fact.

NNE who did not think precisely like the senior pastor managed to survive in the church or go on to do additional ministry like teach Sunday school, etc. He brought up additional pastoral staff (we're talking a church that runs 2500+) from his home church when he released the existing staff. Anyone who attended Southern Seminary (within 10 miles of the church) is automatically not qualified to do any ministry-related task in the church, simply because of theology.

It happens.

Oh, and in the Reformed congregations where I've attended, I've not seen similar issues. I've not heard from the pulpit in sermons this continual harping on people to choose, nor the continual refrain of how one ought to avoid Calvinists at all cost. What I have heard is God and God's gospel preached, with little regard to trying to instill a particular theology. Would a Calvinistic pastor try to convert the theology of someone who was not a Calvinist? Sure. Just the nature of the game, but the difference lies in where the emphasis is placed in the operation of the church -- in God and God's sovereignty to move and act, or in man, and man's need to choose. At the end of the day, the places where it is all dependent on man's need to move, the content of the sermon will always orient itself on anthropology instead of theology.

 

Ah yes, by the way we see DoG/Calvinism/Reformed theological beliefs on here relentlessly ridiculed as false, erroneous, adding to Scriptures &c...instead of experiencing this in an non-cal church, like we do on here, we would instead be welcomed with loving arms and embraced within their churches never tormented over our beliefs as being incorrect, just loved all the way to heaven!!!!! :love2:

I also have a bridge for sale that crosses an ocean bay in AZ. :wavey:

 

Are you sure? What of their anti-missionary, hyper-Calvinistic, and re-baptizing issues? Seemingly, because of their stance on holding Bible studies apart from an organized congregational setting (joint worship) one would not even be able to form a new congregation! Perhaps that is why there are so few congregations!

And, I'm not picking on PB, per se. Every sect of Baptist has their own difficulties, including my own. Just noting a few areas that take some consideration, especially as you attempt to find a new congregation with which to join (or start).

 

Like I said above, I am not picking a fight with Primitive Baptists, and I have found, like you, that our brothers of that persuasion are humble men of God!

But that does not remove the fact that certain tenets of PB doctrine are what they are, hence the questions I have raised. The questions are not offered in a pejorative sense, nor are they intended to harm anyone -- just a statement of facts about what PB say they believe from a PB website designed to do just that. I am perfectly willing to change my views upon evidence other, for the last thing i wish to do is to un-accurately represent a brother of sister in the Lord. I may disagree with their stance, but one of my driving forces in theological study is to speak truthfully and accurately as to what i say, especially concerning what others hold as their doctrines. No need to carve out rabbit trails and strawmen -- just the truthful differences between us is theological fodder for a lifetime!

Edit: Here is the web site I used:

http://www.pb.org/

 

Guys comments about PB's is not incorrect. Many of them hold the beliefs he's described. As a matter of fact, I was given a link describing these exact beliefs when I asked one about evangelism/missions.

My question wasn't greeted with much kindness, but I asked in innocence. The link provided my answers, and the persons answers to my questions "Do you preach evangelistically to reach the lost, believe in sending missionaries?" were never placed on the forum publicly. After reading the link, I know why.

PB's are typically the anti-missionary/evangelism side, while Missionary Baptists would be the evangelistic/missionary supporting side.

- Peace

 

As an aside to this entire discussion, I am of the mind that there are no exemptions to the Berean doctrine, i.e., where we search the scriptures to examine beliefs and doctrines to see if they completely match up to the Word of God.

As a personal philosophy of scholarship and ministry, I find that I have nothing at all to gain from mis-representing any individual or group, so I strive to know them -- from their own writings -- as best possible. When I am speculating or considering something to which I am unsure at some level of reasonable doubt, I will say so. If I feel that I am on solid ground, I will also make that rather evident in my writing style.

I feel that anyone claiming the name of Christ ought to be free (and able!) to lay out their personal or group's theology for all to see. If or when the doctrines need to be held close to the vest, not made public, not discussed so as to not offend someone, etc., then there may be just cause for further investigation. One such instance readily comes to mind, the practice of secret societies that often operate in concert with certain Baptist groups.

Christians ought not have secrets from each other and especially from the world. We are not the high priests of gnosticism (or Catholicism!) where only the initiated hold the truth, and novitiates cannot or do not understand. If exposing what someone or some group believes is problematic, then perhaps what they believe does not match up to orthodox Christian or Scriptural belief, hence the Berean test.

Oh, and that applies to me as well... :thumbsup: