I have a question

[kyredneck]

I have been taught that we the gentiles are grafted in because the Jew rejected Jesus. They being the true vine. For now they are not being saved in any great numbers as this is the age of the gentile.
When the church is removed in the rapture will God turn from the gentile like He has the Jew and start saving the Jew instead of the gentile? Thanks for your replies.

Christ is the true vine (Jn 15).

The natural olive tree is the kingdom of God. I kinda like the way Luke2427 puts it here:

“The Kingdom of God was TAKEN from Israel and GIVEN to the Gentiles. In other words its primary station of operation was moved.”
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=74773 (post #7)

 

[Iconoclast]

Before Christ came, God's focus was on the Jews, His chosen ones. There were some Gentiles who came in (Ruth and Rahab come to mind), but His main focus was on His chosen people. Now that Jesus has torn down the middle wall of partition, His focus in on the "whosoevers", those who believe, whether they be Jew or Gentile.

Ehesians 2:11-22

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Galatians 3:26-29

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Christ came so that we, both Jew and Gentile, could have access to the Father. The Jews have to come to God, through faith in His Son, just like we Gentiles do.

:applause::thumbs::applause::saint:

 

[OldRegular]

Judith,



In this area, I think some of the covenant theology folks (who consider there are multiple covenants and that the church replaced Israel) have it wrong.

Multiple Covenants trump multiple dispensations anytime, particularly since the Bible identifies multiple Covenants but not multiple dispensations. Covenant theology is generally concerned with one covenant, the Covenant of Grace!

Just who among covenant theology believes that the Church replaced Israel. All I have heard [or read] reject Replacement theology.

The Church exists in and through the Lord Jesus Christ and so is a distinctive New Testament reality[144] [New Geneva Bible, page 1864]. However, the Church, as a people of the promised New Covenant [Jeremiah 31:31-33] which was instituted by the Lord Jesus Christ [Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-13], who, as the incarnate God, is the promised seed of Abraham [Galatians 3:16] and the promised Messiah [John 4:25,26], is a continuity of spiritual Israel, God’s covenant people of the Old Testament. The predominant teaching of the Church since Pentecost is that God has only one people and that the New Testament Church is the Israel of God, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. The Baptist Faith and Message adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000 writes of the Church in Section VI as follows: The New Testament speaks also of the Church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.

The initial promise of Redemption [Genesis 3:15] was made long before Israel existed as a people. As Scripture unfolds God expands on His purpose of Redemption. The election of Israel as a people of God was for the ultimate purpose of the birth of Jesus Christ the Incarnate God.

 

[OldRegular]

BINGO!!! We are all Jews, inwardly, via the she blood of Christ.....

Spiritual Jews convicted1, not Jews!

 

[OldRegular]

no, as the bible clearly states that those physical jews who receive yeshua will be the 'true/spiritual" Jews, showing themselves as part of the family of faith of Abraham...

gentiles saved by same Messiah, but God still sees spiritual jews seperate from gentile believers...

At second coming, Church alread been translated, and THEN God completes/fulfills/keeps His promise to have jesus established and ruling over national isreal, when jesus reigns/rules from Jerusalem after His return!

Can you present Scripture to justify the above statements?

 

[Yeshua1]

Can you present Scripture to justify the above statements?

paul Romans Chapters 9-11, as the Apostle saw isreal and church as 2 seperate entities in plan of God!

Not ALL physical Jews were partakers of the new Covenant, as ONLY spiritual jews that were part of the faithful remnant of God, who placed faith in yeshua, were shown 'true sons of Abraham"...

God is calling out both jews/Gentiles today to be saved in the Church, but coming a time of Jacobs troubles, when He deals again with national isreal, as last 7 years of the covenant time given to prophet Daniel!

there is still 7 years allotted by god to His dealing with isreal, and those start up once Church is raptured, then he will turn again to dealing with last generation of jews still living!

Fulfilling when jesus said that once "all these things come to pass", the last generation will see all things started to being fulfilled!

 

[convicted1]

Spiritual Jews convicted1, not Jews!

That's what I said Brother, when I said we are now Jews inwardly. The inner man is saved, and adopted in.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's what I said Brother, when I said we are now Jews inwardly. The inner man is saved, and adopted in.

we are saved as a 'whole man" though!

Soul/spirit now, while body will be at the resurrection!

and physical Jews who get saved by god will be the spiritual jews, NOT we gentiles, as we are the "other flock" to come into yeshua!