I just drugged myself

Eli did not just accuse her of being drunk, he told her to put the wine away from her. In other words, Get rid of it.

Helen, any mind altering drug, and that includes alcohol, falls under the category of pharmakeia (sorcery).

Jesus did not tell the one with the boy who had demons to give him mind altering drugs. He did not give mind altering drugs to the naked man who lived amongst the tombstones.

No, He spoke with authority.and the things that troubled them fled.

Drugs that alter the mind are only an exercise in placing faith in something that man has made instead of Christ to give peace.

Linda64 posted a great verse there, and asked an important question we all should take into consideration.

Where is your peace at? Thank you Linda for reminding us that Jesus Christ gives a peace that is not like the world's peace (mind altering drugs).

 

Are you talking about hallucinogens like LSD and mescaline? Yes, those are dangerous.

But pharmakeia in the Bible is related to the use of drugs in occult practices, such as making magical potions (for spells or call up spirits) or taking drugs to talk to spirits or induce trance states, and probably many of these were mind altering. These kind of practices still exist today, such as with peyote.

Using medicinal drugs to treat illness is not sorcery. The reason it's translated as sorcery in passages like in Deut. 18, is because it was used as part of occult practices.

 

You are so busy tonight yet have time to make numerous postings? I don't get it.

 

Barry must have feed the animals Sunday morning, and evening. Perhaps Barry could do those daily chores, allowing you to do the other necessary things.

I would like to comment on what could be of help to you. I can't understand why we listen to man in his own wisdom. It is your call.

Genesis 9:2, "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." Why not just eat and drink giving thanks to Him.

Genesis 9:20-21, "And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21. And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent." Where did this "wine", which word means it can make one drunk, come from? This is something New, as we do not see it on the other side of the divide of that "great deluge".

We know that God gave this man that found grace in His eyes a reward. He evidently gave this "gift" that represents the "blood of Christ", which we later learn in His Word is the "greatest gift of all". The "gift" that is His purpose, viz. He (God) will become man, give His Blood for He loves man, and those that believe the Words of God as they live, will be saved.

Can this be true? Can any disprove the above, specially rewarding Noah, and telling why He gave Noah the blessing of the Wine? If so, then I believe we must begin by trying to disprove God; Or we will just believe man in their false religion's, such as Muslim, Buddhism, Hindus, and others that refuse the "Gift of Wine, and the Blood of Christ".

Why did He give Noah the wine, this one man, with only His family of 7 people on the whole earth? To make His heart glad. Psalms 104:15, "And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart." He, God gave this "wine" which can cause one to become drunk for man to enjoy, using common sense. This was a NEW Drink for man, and Noah was the "guinea pig" to show what drinking too much wine will do. Did Noah give up His Wine? He knew what it would do, and it would make his heart glad, but he knew "getting merry" brought on sin. I doubt He ever got drunk on this gift from God again, or at least he didn't become a drunkard. Don't we act drunk sometimes when we are "high" on Christ? But we are not drunkards on this so wonderful gift that God gave to us.

Abram did not refuse this gift of wine and bread from the King, Melchizedek, yet we challenge and judge Abram in his sin.

Don't drink too much coffee, tea, wine, strong drink, soda, you name it. Don't eat too much. Don't smoke too much. Don't put too much make-up on. Don't use too much perfume, and don't worry too much about things that are not sins to we in the Body of Christ. With these gifts, and The Gift, we have freedom to partake if we don't become gluttonous about it.

Just a little wine for our stomach's sake. Timothy, unlike Titus, was "uptight".

I believe God's Word, and not that of man, and their "man made religion", with their own rules and making that which God gives us to be sin. We do not have to partake, but please, let's not judge those in His Body that do.

If coffee or tea does it for you, and agrees with your body, I hope you will continue in the bounty He gives you.

 

If a little bit of tea and chocolate is wrong, then we're all in trouble.

May I suggest that the whole key here is Christian love? It is the love of God that keeps me from alcohol--call me a legalist if you will, though I deny the charge, since I do not believe that not drinking alcohol makes me righteous. I have seen the harm alcohol does in my own family, and refuse to go there. That is love.

Helen's act of drinking a cup of tea and eating a chocolate bar looks like love to me if it is done to give herself a boost to serve God and others more faithfully. Personally I don't see how alcohol can ever accomplish that, since it is universally prohibited on the job in professions that require skill and concentration: air travel, medical, law enforcement and many, many others.

I don't know how much this next paragraph will be related, but see if it helps. Many years ago, pastoring in Yokohama, I changed my view on psychiatric drugs while counseling a schizophrenic girl. At a counselling seminar in the States (Jay Adam's crowd) I asked what I should do to get her off her drugs, and was roundly rebuked by the doctor running the session for my ignorance.

I began to think about the matter and watch my schizophrenic when we got back to Japan, and I noticed something. When she was on her meds she functioned normally, but when she refused to take them she caused all sorts of trouble to those around her. For this girl, it was an act of love to take her meds, since she then could be a blessing to those she loved.

During those years of pastoring her, I baptized her, married her to her preacher boy husband and saw her conceive a child when everyone advised her not to. Her husband now pastors a house church, and she is a dedicated mother of one. She called the other day to tell me she had written her fourth book trying to help folk just like her. Now that's love!:godisgood:

 

I think you missed the point. It is not that alcohol is not of God, but like everything else, fallen human beings tend to overdo things that God had provided for their benefits. In the process, many who know the Word, have a tendency to call sin that which the Bible never called sin.

Drunkenness, not drinking, is sin.

Alcohol is a beneficial product if used properly and moderately. Think of Christians who live in perenially cold weather, for example. You don't recommend they carry a mugful of strong, hot coffee all day wherever they go, do you ? The effect on the nerves will be far worse than the necessary glass or two of wine to heat the body up, so to speak.

Red wine is also a powerful antioxidant.

Alcohol is also used as a disinfectant. Did the good Samaritan use unfermented wine to wash the wounds of the traveler ?

However, people tend to excessively use alcohol. I know of a beautiful lady back home who was a lady in every sense of the word, until one day she drank too many, and then she was as one of the daughters of Belial, and when the alcohol wore off, she couldn't look anyone in the eye for weeks. She never touched the stuff again, except in social occassions, and she was okay.

 

Wrong. I live on the northern island of Japan, with the records for the coldest temperature and most snow in Japan. In the winter we routinely get a foot of snow at a time, and by the end of the year we have about 6 reet of snow in our yard. (Think Siberia here--check out my website.) Nobody up here recommends alcohol to beat the cold that I know of. You want a hot drink in you, whether it be coffee, tea, honey lemon, etc. The vending machines up here are full of such hot drinks, but you can't buy alcohol out of a vending machine up here like you can in Tokyo and the rest of Japan.

 

As far as alcohol goes wether it be scriptual to drink it or not the perception of it is always negative. If you are seen as a christian buying alcohol it becomes a poor testimony.

As far as caffine altering your mind and it being sinnful let us consider soemthing else.

What other things alter our mind. How about anger, "righteous ingidnation", how about our own emotions. Do they not alter our state of mind? Do we not say and do things in this state that we would not have done in a calmer state?

How much different is this from caffine? Our state of mind gets altered by a great many things. Be careful of judgement. For you may be guilty of mind altering infliction yourself.

 

John, keywords in my post were "perenially cold", and "Christians". While you may feel that your little neck of the woods in Japan may be classified cold, it does not qualify for "perennial", and "Christian", as in predominantly Christian.

I was thinking more in terms of countries like Finland, Denmark, or even Russia, and other spots much colder than Northern Japan, notwithstanding six feet or less of snow.

I am sure that vending machines in those perenially cold countries do not sell alcohol, too, but, as a matter of habit and culture, most people there, including most "Christians", will drop by a pub or a bar and reach for a glass of wine or spirit at workday's end, and at home, or in socials, than reach for a cup of coffee.

 

My, my! How I and my family live in abstaining seculsion!!

 

pinoybaptist, you don't know Japan, and you certainly don't know my island of Hokkaido. Granted, it is only 1% Christian, so I grant you that point. But it is already chilly here, and within a month we will have snow, and it will last until April. During that time it will get really cold, below 0 F. much of the time. We have one warm month, August. Even the other months of the summer can get chilly, and it even snows in the summer sometimes.

Concerning the Japanese, they drink just as much as the Russians, who drink their vodka all the time. 95% of Japanese people drink. There are buildings down town in my town with 20 bars in one building. Down south you can buy raw whiskey from a vending machine, or a cup of sake (rice wine) to drink right there, that's how much they drink here. Take my word for it, if alcohol warmed you, they would be drinking it for that purpose up here. It doesn't and they don't. They drink it for recreation. The only alcohol that will warm you is a hot toddy.

As for "Christians" in Russia or Finland or Denmark, you have to be kidding. Those countries are hardly even Christian even in name only anymore. The Russian Orthodox church is as corrupt as they come. Denmark has legalized drug use, prostitution and just about everything else. The state church of Denmark led the charge there for the 1989 legalization of homosexual "marriage." Get the scoop about Denmark and the other so-called "Christian" nations of Scandinavia at: http://hir.harvard.edu/articles/1343/

 

Some people are against any kind of medicine unless it is for a 'physical' problem, but <gasp> at taking medicine for an 'emotional' or 'mental' problem that they can't 'see'.

I have been taking an anti-anxiety pill for years and will continue taking it until the day I die.

Why? Because it allows me to show love and live a normal life and take care of my home and family. Just like your tea and chocolate, Helen.

Am I doing wrong? I don't think so because God gave my doctor the wisdom to find exactly the right pill that allows me to travel, go shopping, go to church, etc. Things I was unable to do for so long.

It doesn't seem to alter my mind as I can drive 1200 (TYPO) should only be 600 miles a day and competently do work that requires 'brain power'.

Most people do not have enough adrenlin and they need a 'rush'. I have too much and take something to keep it at bay.

I used to drink (I did not get saved until I was in my 30's) and I know the difference between a glass of wine and drunkeness.

My doctor told my sister to drink a can of beer late in the evening to enable her to sleep because it was safer than drugs. She became a drunk because, after a while, one beer didn't do the trick. Before too long, a six-pack didn't do the trick. I would have become one too with that advice. It runs in the family.

I will take my anti-anxiety meds every day as prescribed and when I need a 'boost' to keep going, on an especially busy day, my M&M's with peanuts are on my desk. I usually eat 5 of them three times a day.

Yes! I'm addicted! Drugged? No way!

 

Surely that is a typo, unless you took my recipe for chocolate and coffee candy and ate a bunch!!!



BTW, good post. Drugs are needed for emotional as well as "physical" illnesses.

 

On a trip out of state, our car broke down after dark. We called my brother to come fetch us, and he did. He drove all night to rescue us; stayed alert on Mountain Dew and chocolate candy. Was that wrong? Not at all! "Consistency" you say? "Either it's right all the time, or wrong all the time." Well, here's my take: tea, coffee, chocolate in moderation is not mind altering. I'm living proof.

I know many people who cannot function without these types of meds. And I wouldn't want to be around them if they didn't take their meds! They have a terrible time completing even small tasks. Would you take away their quality of life? Better yet, would you want others to yank your quality of life?

:thumbsup:

I couldn't agree more, Revmitchell ...

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Good, educational thread, Helen.

 

You're right Tim! That WAS a typo. I go to visit my son twice a year and he lives 300 miles away. I meant to say that I can drive 600 miles a day because I always come back the same night!

If I drove 1200 miles a day, I would be like this...

 

This diachronic red herring is just as silly as saying that Helen's husband's work regarding physics falls under the category of witchcraft because in the seventeenth century the word "experimentum" applied to both scientific experimentation and witchcraft. Words are much better understood by their synchronic usage, whether in NT times, the seventeenth century, or today.

BJ

 

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

 

Your point?

 

Anyone that doesn't agree with him he calls "fool" or "natural"