I Know I Am Elect Because...

[skypair]

"Elected by God" means a PRIOR action/cause (prior to our action) by God that results in an "effect" - my salvation

Otherwise it would be Elected by BOB and then God the cosmic vending machine said "OK you did it Bob. Good for you; I now elect you"

Dr Bob, the truth is that before God predestines us, He foreknows us. "Foreknows" does not mean "elect" -- it does not mean "forelove" (a cute Calvinist adaptation but not even suggested by the Greek).

So here is where you are correct: God foreknew who would believe. Then He predestined those to His purpose. This all occurred before creation. All good.

Then in the course of time, what God knew is exactly what happened. We couldn't not believe if He foreknew we would. You got that right, too. But there's another issue -- it wasn't His will that any should perish. So, yes, it is up to us.

skypair

 

[MB]

Such an error of thinking about God's elect will get you into a mess o'trouble.

I'm not sure of what you mean by this statement

Read what JESUS said about His sheep. Sheep that had not yet heard the Gospel but were still sheep. Sheep in other nations/times (like us) thousands of years removed. Sheep that were "lost" (Lk 15) and the shepherd found them. Sheep that heard the Shepherd's voice.

They were never goats. They were lost sheep and found sheep, but always from the foundation of the world, beloved elect sheep.

One is named Bob.

I did a word search of the word "Sheep" and read everyone. I still do not see anywhere that man is a sheep with out it meaning he is a follower of God or Christ.
Predestination says we are predestined in Christ. That's a lot different than being predestined particularity to Salvation. Calvinist for the most part do not see "in Christ" they seem to see themselves particularity in stead. Particular election to Salvation isn't in scripture. However Paul did say that Salvation has been sent to the gentiles and that they will hear it.

MB

 

[AresMan]

I have no idea where you got that from. God can save anyone He wants to and the Calvinist idea of particular election has no restraint on who He saves. By the way Particular election to Salvation is yet another Calvinist concept that isn't found in scripture. There are different elections such as the choosing of Jacob Which have no bearing on Salvation. Example the people in "Nineveh". They weren't Jews, they weren't elect, yet they believed and were saved.
MB

I am not quite sure how you disagree. I do believe that there are/were different elections for different purposes (elect Christ, elect angels, elect Abraham, elect Israel, elect believers [i.e. all believers]). Is not "particular redemption" God saving whom He wills, which is realized in His effectual drawing unto the faith of the Gospel?

 

[Dr. Bob]

I did a word search of the word "Sheep" and read everyone. I still do not see anywhere that man is a sheep with out it meaning he is a follower of God or Christ.

You are right. Sheep are sheep are sheep. ALWAYS refer to the elect who ALWAYS are sheep.

Even if "lost", they are not goats. They are lost sheep. Still sheep. Always sheep.

 

[Rippon]

You are right. Sheep are sheep are sheep. ALWAYS refer to the elect who ALWAYS are sheep.

Even if "lost", they are not goats. They are lost sheep. Still sheep. Always sheep.

And Jesus is the Great Shepherd of the sheep. He's not a goat herder.( I think I made a thread about that.)

 

[Jim1999]

Aha! I can instantly put a stop to my dear wife calling me the Old Goat!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[canadyjd]

Aha! I can instantly put a stop to my dear wife calling me the Old Goat!

:laugh: :laugh: "An old sheep" just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

peace to youraying:

 

[Dr. Bob]

I always refer to my wfe as a sheep.

Just tonight I said, "Hey, ewe, bring me a . . . "

:laugh:

 

[Rippon]

I always refer to my wfe as a sheep.

Just tonight I said, "Hey, ewe, bring me a . . . "

:laugh:

That was Baaaahd.

 

[Rippon]

I think referencing Christ's sheep from eternity gets the goat of Arminians.

 

[webdog]

You are right. Sheep are sheep are sheep. ALWAYS refer to the elect who ALWAYS are sheep.

Even if "lost", they are not goats. They are lost sheep. Still sheep. Always sheep.

Oh really?

Psalms 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

Never heard of the "reprobate elect" before.

 

[skypair]

Or...

I know I am elect because ... I have a SHEEPISH grin! :laugh:

skypair

 

[MB]

You are right. Sheep are sheep are sheep. ALWAYS refer to the elect who ALWAYS are sheep.

Even if "lost", they are not goats. They are lost sheep. Still sheep. Always sheep.

If so then we don't need to be regenerated. We don't need the Holy Spirit to change us because we are already sheep. Christ died in vain because we were made righteous by election.
MB

 

[Dr. Bob]

Oh really?

Psalms 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

You do understand the word "simile" used here? "Like" sheep. Not talking about sheep, but that people are "like" sheep.

Goodness. 7th grade English lesson over.

(Note to webdog - sorry about accidentally hitting your post. It was NOT editted, just walked on with fat fingers)

 

[skypair]

You do understand the word "simile" used here? "Like" sheep. Not talking about sheep, but that people are "like" sheep.

So we are to assume from your citations that we ARE sheep -- literally? Can anyone say "metaphor?" What's your point, Bob?

"MY sheep hear my voice." Does that not suggest that there ARE other sheep? that maybe you should review the details of these parables and see if you aren't misguided?


skypair

 

[webdog]

You do understand the word "simile" used here? "Like" sheep. Not talking about sheep, but that people are "like" sheep.

Goodness. 7th grade English lesson over.

(Note to webdog - sorry about accidentally hitting your post. It was NOT editted, just walked on with fat fingers)

Ah...the "I'm more intelligent" ad hominem. Haven't seen that one in a while

I agree with skypair here. YOU have stated ALL mentions of sheep are in reference to "the elect". Unless you believe we are actually odd shaped literal sheep, you really have no dog in this fight. The use of sheep in Scripture refer to more than "the elect".