I Own A Business...

[HAMel]

...open to the public at large. It's a bakery shop. I bake the most fabulously tasting and decorated cakes East of the Mississippi. Second to none.

Last Tuesday morning to men walked into my business to order a cake. A wedding cake. I did notice they are kinda "light" on their feet and they did offer up a few feminine traits and soon it became obvious..., this cake is for them.

As a Christian do I refuse to bake them a cake? Toss 'em out the door? Tell 'em they are both bound to an eternity in hell? Call the cops? Kick the dog? Slam the door?

...no. I bake the cake for 'em.

To begin with, I do not own a bakery. I am not into the same sex marriage thing. I do believe they are on their way to an eternity of destruction.

...I will still bake the cake.

You see, I'm in the cake baking business. That's my job. A while back this elderly woman came in and ordered a small birthday cake for her dog. It was her dog's 5th birthday.

...I baked her dog a cake.

I just don't understand all this nonsense of refusing to provide a service you're in business to provide if some of your customers don't meet your expectations when it comes to their life style.

What say U?

 

[Rolfe]

I just don't understand all this nonsense of refusing to provide a service you're in business to provide if some of your customers don't meet your expectations when it comes to their life style.

What say U?

You call it nonsense. Others call it personal conviction.

 

[JonC]

Baking a cake for a same sex marriage is not supporting or condoning that marriage any more than taking the time to dine with a pagan is supportive of paganism. If a Christian owns a bakery shop and denies non-Christians service for not exhibiting Christ in their life, what does that say about Christ’s love? What I think is that Christianity in America general is lukewarm at best. We expect the world to act like the Church (as if there were some redemption in such pretense) while we meet them half way by adopting worldly culture.

The problem with calling it "personal conviction" is that these "convictions" are the same as those held by the Pharisees when they accused Jesus for eating with sinners.

 

[Van]

America was founded on the principle of freedom. It was a coalition of "saints" and "strangers." The "saints were seeking religious freedom, i.e. separation of church and state whereby those that govern would not dictate doctrine. The "strangers" were seeking economic freedom, i.e. opportunity to own their homes, farms, businesses, etc. Each faction would tolerate the other, allowing them to live as they saw fit.

The OP scenaro puts the onus on those seeking religious freedom to adhere to the "religious views" of pagans at the point of a sword, failure to sell might be a "hate crime."

We have a right to associate with whom we please, but the leftest tyrants of today are chipping away at liberty, enslaving us once more
in their leftest utopia lacking both religious and economic liberty.

 

[Darrell C]

...open to the public at large. It's a bakery shop. I bake the most fabulously tasting and decorated cakes East of the Mississippi. Second to none.

Last Tuesday morning to men walked into my business to order a cake. A wedding cake. I did notice they are kinda "light" on their feet and they did offer up a few feminine traits and soon it became obvious..., this cake is for them.

As a Christian do I refuse to bake them a cake? Toss 'em out the door? Tell 'em they are both bound to an eternity in hell? Call the cops? Kick the dog? Slam the door?

...no. I bake the cake for 'em.

To begin with, I do not own a bakery. I am not into the same sex marriage thing. I do believe they are on their way to an eternity of destruction.

...I will still bake the cake.

You see, I'm in the cake baking business. That's my job. A while back this elderly woman came in and ordered a small birthday cake for her dog. It was her dog's 5th birthday.

...I baked her dog a cake.

I just don't understand all this nonsense of refusing to provide a service you're in business to provide if some of your customers don't meet your expectations when it comes to their life style.

What say U?

I too own a company and do not refuse service (literally, lol, I'm an HVAC Contractor) to gays. In order to do this I would have to ask everyone if they are gay before I went out.

I would agree that for those whose conscience might be goaded in providing a service such as baking a wedding cake, I agree with the other member and not impose my judgment either way.

Gay marriage is in the front line and protest of gay marriage through refusing to bake the cake may be how some feel led. I can't fault that, any more than I can fault your own decision to view it as business as usual. The truth is that not all gays are as obvious as the two who entered your shop. One would have to get out of the business altogether in order to ensure no cakes were made for such weddings.

On a different note, let me ask you about pudding cakes. It seems to me that when I was a kid a bundt cake with a pudding center was a popular dessert. My wife and I have discussed it, and she recently made one, but the question is in how it is done. Seems to me that I remember part of the batter poured into the bundt pan, then the pudding poured in in a circle (so it is in the middle), then the remaining batter poured over this, encasing the pudding. She said "You can't do that, you have to put the pudding in after it bakes."

What say you?

God bless.

 

[Use of Time]

America was founded on the principle of freedom. It was a coalition of "saints" and "strangers." The "saints were seeking religious freedom, i.e. separation of church and state whereby those that govern would not dictate doctrine. The "strangers" were seeking economic freedom, i.e. opportunity to own their homes, farms, businesses, etc. Each faction would tolerate the other, allowing them to live as they saw fit.

The OP scenaro puts the onus on those seeking religious freedom to adhere to the "religious views" of pagans at the point of a sword, failure to sell might be a "hate crime."

We have a right to associate with whom we please, but the leftest tyrants of today are chipping away at liberty, enslaving us once more
in their leftest utopia lacking both religious and economic liberty.

I wonder if these businesses that refuse would have the guts to put their money where their mouth is and post a sign outside their businesses that proudly state just who they will and will not serve. It's one thing to turn someone away and pat yourself on the back and pretend you are winning some spiritual battle. If these are your convictions, let the world know. Funny how we don't really see those stories very often.

 

[HAMel]

Great and level headed responses. Thanks.


Use Of Time..., you said..., "I wonder if these businesses that refuse would have the guts to put their money where their mouth is and post a sign outside...

This made me think of the anti-gunners. You don't see any signs in their front yards that announce and proclaim they are a gun free zone? Nope. You sure don't.

@Darrell C, I don't know if I've ever had a "pudding cake". ...and here I claim to be a baker. Oh well. The cat is now out of the bag.

 

[Use of Time]

Great and level headed responses. Thanks.


Use Of Time..., you said..., "I wonder if these businesses that refuse would have the guts to put their money where their mouth is and post a sign outside...

This made me think of the anti-gunners. You don't see any signs in their front yards that announce and proclaim they are a gun free zone? Nope. You sure don't.

@Darrell C, I don't know if I've ever had a "pudding cake". ...and here I claim to be a baker. Oh well. The cat is now out of the bag.

Well front yards aren't generally places of business. I don't want to see the signs anyway as it would feel eerily similar to the horrible signs we saw in the 60's and it wouldn't be great to revert back to the line of thinking that treats people like second hand citizens. The sign thing is just something to think about.

 

[padredurand]

If I were a baker I would refuse to bake them a cake under one condition: all the Christian owned gas stations refused to sell them gas, all the Christian owned grocery stores refused to sell them food, all the Christian owned department stores refused to sell them clothing, all the Christian owned appliance stores refused to sell them stoves, all the Christian owned bait shops refused to sell them worms, all the Christian owned news stands refused to sell them papers,all the Christian owned coffee shops refused to sell them double lattes, all the Christian owned book stores refused to sell them books, all the Christian owned computer shops refused to sell them computers, all the Christian owned hardware stores refused to sell them hardware........

 

[matt wade]

If I were a baker I would refuse to bake them a cake under one condition: all the Christian owned gas stations refused to sell them gas, all the Christian owned grocery stores refused to sell them food, all the Christian owned department stores refused to sell them clothing, all the Christian owned appliance stores refused to sell them stoves, all the Christian owned bait shops refused to sell them worms, all the Christian owned news stands refused to sell them papers,all the Christian owned coffee shops refused to sell them double lattes, all the Christian owned book stores refused to sell them books, all the Christian owned computer shops refused to sell them computers, all the Christian owned hardware stores refused to sell them hardware........

Your examples don't quite work.

You would need to say: all the Christian owned florists refused to sell them flowers (for their wedding), all the Christian photographers refused to take pictures (for their wedding), etc.

Here's the big one, how about: all the Christian owned churches refuse to have them married in their facilities?

There's a difference in selling gas to people and selling them something that is a part of their sinful ceremony.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I am with you Hamel. Bake a cake.

 

[padredurand]

Your examples don't quite work.

You would need to say: all the Christian owned florists refused to sell them flowers (for their wedding), all the Christian photographers refused to take pictures (for their wedding), etc.

Here's the big one, how about: all the Christian owned churches refuse to have them married in their facilities?

There's a difference in selling gas to people and selling them something that is a part of their sinful ceremony.

What is the difference between supporting their ceremony and supporting their lifestyle? The are both mockeries of marriage.

 

[DHK]

...open to the public at large. It's a bakery shop. I bake the most fabulously tasting and decorated cakes East of the Mississippi. Second to none.

Last Tuesday morning to men walked into my business to order a cake. A wedding cake. I did notice they are kinda "light" on their feet and they did offer up a few feminine traits and soon it became obvious..., this cake is for them.

As a Christian do I refuse to bake them a cake? Toss 'em out the door? Tell 'em they are both bound to an eternity in hell? Call the cops? Kick the dog? Slam the door?

...no. I bake the cake for 'em.

To begin with, I do not own a bakery. I am not into the same sex marriage thing. I do believe they are on their way to an eternity of destruction.

...I will still bake the cake.

You see, I'm in the cake baking business. That's my job. A while back this elderly woman came in and ordered a small birthday cake for her dog. It was her dog's 5th birthday.

...I baked her dog a cake.

I just don't understand all this nonsense of refusing to provide a service you're in business to provide if some of your customers don't meet your expectations when it comes to their life style.

What say U?

But if it is a wedding cake and they specifically ask you to put a topper or ornament of a man kissing a man, each embracing one another, then will you still do it?

 

[SaggyWoman]

Did Jesus ask the publicans and sinners to stop before he sat and ate with them?

 

[salzer mtn]

Your examples don't quite work.

You would need to say: all the Christian owned florists refused to sell them flowers (for their wedding), all the Christian photographers refused to take pictures (for their wedding), etc.

Here's the big one, how about: all the Christian owned churches refuse to have them married in their facilities?

There's a difference in selling gas to people and selling them something that is a part of their sinful ceremony.

I totally agree with this. It's not just a cake but a wedding cake you would be baking for them and if you bake it you become part of their ceremony.

 

[just-want-peace]

I can see both sides to this question, BUT, IMHO, the real problem comes when gov dictates who you, a private business, HAVE to cater to.
If too many of the public rejects your stance, they can vote with their debit card, or conversely they can support you likewise. Gov has no place getting involved. After all, the public spoke VERY LOUDLY re: Chic-Filet, did they not?? (This reaction is the nightmare of the deviants - that's why they use the media & courts, rather than let the public decide:smilewinkgrin: )
In a baker capacity, I would sell to them, but I would reserve the right to NOT DECORATE AGAINST MY BELIEFS/PRINCIPLES.
If they accepted those terms, I'd supply their needs.
Same for photos; they would NOT get any pictures of them going thru the ceremony, kissing, etc. If they accepted those terms (does ANYONE think they would??), then I'd shoot the rest of the occasion.
'Course with our modern PC police we'll never know how that would work out, will we?

 

[HAMel]

DHK, you asked..., "...and they specifically ask you to put a topper or ornament of a man kissing a man, each embracing one another, then will you still do it?

...I would. You see, while I certainly do not support the homosexual agenda one iota I'm in business to make a living. In "some" places same sex marriage is now NOT against man's law. If I was asked by a same sex couple my position on the matter I'd have to be honest with them but that wouldn't stop me from performing my job as a cake baker.

Now if they wanted me to stuff a cake with a bag of crack cocaine I'd draw the line. That would be illegal (man's law) and I could go to jail.

As one poster stated it's his job to provide heating and air conditioning. What if you were a car salesman? Selling stolen cars is a different matter.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

DHK, you asked..., "...and they specifically ask you to put a topper or ornament of a man kissing a man, each embracing one another, then will you still do it?

...I would. You see, while I certainly do not support the homosexual agenda one iota I'm in business to make a living. In "some" places same sex marriage is now NOT against man's law. If I was asked by a same sex couple my position on the matter I'd have to be honest with them but that wouldn't stop me from performing my job as a cake baker.

Now if they wanted me to stuff a cake with a bag of crack cocaine I'd draw the line. That would be illegal (man's law) and I could go to jail.

As one poster stated it's his job to provide heating and air conditioning. What if you were a car salesman? Selling stolen cars is a different matter.

if you really love Jesus than you'd hate the abomination of homosexuality and would want no part in it, it was Judas business to betray Jesus for money, don't forget that.

You real business is to please the Lord, and the Lord is not pleased with you helping a homosexual couple celebrate their abominations.

How can you pretend to love Jesus and then do something like that?

You're gonna make a cake celebrating and depicting something your savior suffered and died on a cross for? How can you do that with a clear conscience?

 

[Rolfe]

if you really love Jesus...

(...)

How can you pretend to love Jesus and then do something like that?

Expect flak for your choice of words.

 

[HAMel]

Jordan Kurecki..., How can you pretend to love Jesus and then do something like that?

...if I had a paper route and 13 of my customers were homosexuals would I still deliver their News Papers? If I owned a taxicab would I give them a ride? If I was a mechanic would I repair their vehicles?

Makes me wonder for "whom" it is that loves Jesus?