I think the "holiday" protest backfired

[Helen]

Originally posted by eyeball:
The Bible mentions only three kinds of gifts: gold, frankincense and myrrh. As such, I really think the only appropriate gifts to give during christmas are aromatics, perfumes and money. This is the only example we have of Biblical gift-giving, and thus the one we should follow.

The aromatics were used in large part as burial 'spices' to help preserve the body. So is giving shrouds OK?

Sorry, I couldn't help it. It's late (early in the morning) and I'm waiting for pain pills to control carpal tunnel pain so I can go back to sleep...)

Just send me all those fruitcakes no one else wants!

 

[blueridgewv]

The celebration of Christmas is NOT part of the original Christian heritage, or derived from Scripture, but from human admixture of pagan and Romish traditions.

Here is Gov. William Bradford's position, taken from The Plymouth Colony:

The Pilgrims did not observe Christmas Day or Easter, since, as they said, the could find no authorization in Scripture for such observance. They branded the celebration of these days as "Roman Corruption" and declared that no one who participated in the customary rites could be called a true Christian."

Bradford's Plymouth Colony, footnote page in Chapter XII.

A newspaper properly summarized the protestant Christian position, contrary to the modern apostate Baptist practice:

"A broad element of English Christianity still considered Christmas celebration a pagan blasphemy. The Puritans, Baptists, Quakers,
Presbyterians, Calvinists and other denominations brought this opposition to early New England and strong opposition to the holiday lasted in America
until the middle of the 18th century."
12/23/83 USA TODAY

And again, the great Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon:

"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because [it's] not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. ...

"It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the
day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; ... Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the
holy days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals. ... We venture to assert that if there be any day in the year of which we may be pretty
sure that it was not the day on which the Saviour was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. ...

-- Baptist Preacher, Charles Haddon Spurgeon; London 1871

So why are you all celebrating "Christ-mass", with tree-idols (Jeremiah 10:1-4), contrary to our protestant Christian ancestors and the teaching of Holy Scripture? Are you wiser than they?

You ought not to speak so proudly of that which your Christian forefather's abhorred, and of that which God will judge! God is still Jealous for purity of his worship, and idolatry will be "visited", as the second commandment warns.

 

[KenH]

We have "Merry Christmas" at the beginning and at the end of our answering machine message at home.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by blueridgewv:
So why are you all celebrating "Christ-mass", with tree-idols (Jeremiah 10:1-4), contrary to our protestant Christian ancestors and the teaching of Holy Scripture? Are you wiser than they?

OH, NO, not the old JW "Christmas Tree Idol" charge on the BB!!!

blueridgewv, Christmas trees are NOT IDOLS!!! I live in a truly idolatrous country, and people WORSHIP idols. What kind of a Baptist idiot would bow down to a Christmas tree or believe that a Christmas tree can do something for him? No one!!

I have seen children bow down and pray to a "jizo" (Buddha for children). I have seen many Japanese bow down and pray to their ancestors. I have seen people pray to the "Daibutsu" (Great Buddha) at Kamakura. I have seen people pray to the spirit of Shogun Ieyasu Nobunaga at his Shinto grave in Nikko. I have even had an old Japanese lady do a "zarei" (seated bow) to me and call me a god, a notion of which I quickly disabused her. THESE are examples of idolatry, not having a Christmas tree. Get your head straight, for crying out loud.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Well, I certainly think that a Christmas tree can be an idol imported from the pagans, depending upon how you treat it, it can simply be a decoration just as a jade Budha could be.

 

[whatever]

We only offer aromatics, perfumes and money to our tree so I think that's acceptable.

 

[Rachel]

 

[Hope of Glory]

How about simply getting an aromatic money tree?

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by whatever:
We only offer aromatics, perfumes and money to our tree so I think that's acceptable.

 

[Bro. James]

Irrelevant historical observation: the gold, frankensence and myrrh were presented to a two year old child not a new-born. The nativity scenes with wisemen are historically incorrect--the magi were not there.

Most folks believe, and practice exactly as they choose--regardless of the facts.

The scripture still calls it pagan idolatry.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Mexdeaf]

Originally posted by Bro. James:
Most folks believe, and practice exactly as they choose--regardless of the facts.

The scripture still calls it pagan idolatry.

Chapter and verse, please!

 

[Bro. James]

Galatians 4:8-11,"Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods(pagan idols)(my parenthetical). But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

Bro. James

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Bro. James:
Galatians 4:8-11,"Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods(pagan idols)(my parenthetical). But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

Bro. James

And this says what about Christmas trees and the celebration of Christmas?

This passage certainly does not mean it is wrong to celebrate Christmas. We "observe days" every time we worship on Sunday. Ever have a birthday celebration? This passage is not talking about that. It is talking about actual idolatrous practices.

I am very familiar with those, living in Japan. Japanese have "Hatsu Mode" ("first worship") on New Year's, the "Bon Matsuri" in August when they believe the dead come back from the Buddhist Hell, and many other heathen, idolatrous days on which they worship idols.

However, no place in the entire world is Christmas used to practice idolatry. No one prays to a Christmas tree or offers incense to it, as the Buddhists do in their idolatrous worship. No one but Catholics pray to anyone but Christ on Christmas, and they pray to Mary and the saints year round.

And don't give me that bogus argument that people worship the mighty dollar when they buy presents. I have seen idolatry in the raw, real people worshipping actual idols. It is sickening, sad, and sends people to Hell. When we Christians celebrate Christmas we are not idolators, and anyone who thinks we are just simply does not know idolatry. They are deceived into thinking idolatry is much less worse than it is.

I've seen people worship trees here in Japan. If you see a tree, usually old and huge, with a thick rope around it, that is an idol. Shintoists stop, face it, clap their hands (to wake up the spirit of the tree), bow their heads and pray to it. Now THAT'S idolatry, NOT having a Christmas tree. And it is very sad and tragic.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

I am not sure I understand the whole "go on the offensive" approach.

I work with a number of people who are not Christians. We have always sent "holiday" cards specifically for that reason. IMHO, it is not a matter of political correctness, it is a matter of respect. I think that, as a Christian, I should be gracious to others and respectful of their particular beliefs. Respecting the beliefs and values of others is another way I am attempting to "shine" before these people. My goal is to make them see the joy in my life, and ultimately to make them want it. In my personal experience, I have found this to be a rather effective way to portray the Love of Christ.

After all, I love them all and pray for them every night.

Wishing a Merry Christmas to all of you fellow Christians (since I know the demographics of this list),

BiR

 

[rsr]

Sometimes I think Christians who want to celebrate Christmas are being done a favor by irreligionists — to many Americans, "Christmas" is a commercial orgy of gift buying and receiving, and, frankly, I don't prefer to have that as part of marking the Savior's birth and really don't care whether some sales person reaching for my wallet says "Merry Christmas" or not.

Bah, humbug.

 

[cojosh]

That whole gift thing is a little screwy and seems to have a negative affect rather than a positive one.

Santa Clause is the devil!!!!!!

 

[mioque]

The Christmastree was supposedly invented by Martin Luther and the Nativity Scene was apparently invented by Francis of Assisi.
I admire them both, even if I disagree with them on a host of issues.
There will ofcourse be a Nativity Scene and a Christmastree in my church's coffeeroom, 'cause I get to decide how and if that room is decorated. There will be no reindeer in sight....

Saint Nicholas by the way used to be an admirable figure as well....

That is...

Before the citizens of God's own country sank their claws in him.

 

[John of Japan]

Well said, mioque.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Seth&Mattsmom:
Now, after all the hullalaboo over the PC Christmas terms, she informed me that she is buying a "Holiday Tree" today.

That's one of those PC phrases that was short-lived and over the top. Even most atheists consider this a ridiculous phrase.

If the 2005 White House can have a Christmas tree, then so can everyone else.

But in all reality, each person is free to cal it what they wish. A Jewish family I know had one and called is a 6 foot chanukkah bush.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
A few years ago they attempted to advertise Christmas as "XMAS".

That wasn't "a few" years ago, that was many years ago. It was not an attempt to remove Christ from Christmas. The "X" was another symbol for the cross, and the term X-mas was a common abbreviation amongst Christians for Christmas. Christians only started getting upset about it when the secular world started using it as well.