I was just wanting some of the other Pastor's thoughts

[Pastor Sam]

What would you do if a Pastor (who use to be a friend) passed on information about you that he only had hearsay about? The hearsay he had was untrue and now it has hurt your ministry. What scriptural steps would you take? Is there something wrong with asking others Pastors for advice?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

That's fine, but leave any names out of the thread this time. If your personal reference pops up again I will delete the thread.

As a pastor I suspect that you know the answer - you confront him one on one first and see if two men of God can work this out.

If that doesn't work take 2 or 3 godly men with you to talk to him.

If that still doesn't work, take it to the church and let them decide.

You primary focus MUST be a godly restoration of your relationship.

 

[gb93433]

Mt. 18:15-17, "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

 

[Dan Todd]

Pray!

 

[Pastor Sam]

Well...here is the problem. He is in Wisconsin and I am in Southern IL. I did confront him via e-mail but he just brushed it under the table. As far as bringing it before the church...well the church used information he supplied and information from another Pastor friend of his and they voted me out. I was not allowed to present my side of the case. They just voted me out. Note: They had to bring in members who hadn't attended church in over 2 1/2 years. Some hadn't attended in over 9 years as far as records go. They never removed them from the membership so they had a right to vote. I had 85% of the vote of those who were presently attending. They let me present my side the night before the vote and they believed me and the evidience. The trouble makers who were about to be exposed pushed this through. The financial secretary & treasurer did not want the church books audited and I was pushing for it and they started digging into my past and found two Pastors who would give them something that could damage my name. They ran my good name through the mud.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

It sounds to me like God is calling you to California or some other place with plenty of distance between you and your neighbors. Out here, for the most part we really don't care what happened to a person Back East. We do care what kind of person you are right now in Tobin Station.

 

[Pastor Sam]

That is what the people who were behind me said. They listen to me at the meeting before the vote but the whole church didn't get to hear it because those running the meeting controled it and they had all the ringers giving them the votes to do as they pleased. They didn't even follow the Robert's Rules of Order. They never asked for a motion or second. They just took a secret ballot and announced the results ansd showed me the door.

 

[dianetavegia]

Is this concerning this same thread?

Originally posted by Pastor Sam:
What would you do if the Chairman of Deacons told you that he was having some Deacons meetings concerning you and that you were not invited to the meetings. And lets say that he tells you that the reason you aren't invited is that they are going to be talking about you and your office as Pastor. Lets also suppose you tell him that he shouldn't and can't have any such meetings but he plans to have them anyway. What would you do. A Pastor friend need your scriptural advice.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/48/529.html#000000


Diane

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't know the whole story, and details will not be accepted here, but I learned A LONG time ago that there are two sides to EVERY story!

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Sam,
From the information presented this church is out of order in a bad way.

I will remember you in prayer and I hope God will Bless you in this hardship.

Bro. Dallas

 

[gb93433]

Join the club. That kind of practice is on the increase. Friends of mine who teach in Bible schools and seminaries have told me this practice has been on the increase.

A former SBC state evangelism director was asked to resign from a church that had grown from 75 to almost 600 before he moved on to be the state director. The chruch today is only 75 and dead. That same thing happened to Jonathan Edward and John Wesley.

Obviously God is saying move on. So you need to accept that.

Remember Joseph in Gen. 37.

It's tough medicine for you. But God will use this in your life. You will learn to forgive more easily and see God face to face. You will see God more clearly than ever before. He will work in ways that you cannot see now, but later you will thank Him for what you have learned. You will be wiser and know God better. You will learn a lot more about what Jesus went through. You will have a passion that only others who have gone through what you are going through will understand.

What happened to you should not surprise anyone nowadays. Churches are declining and the people are not so willing to work and sacrifice. They expect the pastor to do miracles. Why do you think the majority of students in theology at SWBTS do not want to be pastors?

Don't let this deter you from serving God. Get out there and disciple people.

I can say I know what you are going through. The church I was at had grown from 75 to 220. Immediately after I left I had two interviews from a church and state agency that knew the church and what happened. The church happened to be a Baptist church in another denomination about 30 miles away who knew what happened. I had not heard of the church but they had heard of me.
During my stay I had planted two other churches. The pastors in the association had voted ot have me give the sermon at the annual associational meeting.

Sometimes God has to remove us where we are to put us where he wants us.

Accept what God wants. In my case he prevented me from other things that were going on in the church that I did not know about. That church had a music leader that was a gossiper along with some deacons. When I spoke on gossip, the gossiper came out mad and made my life miserable. When I left the deacons were faced with dealing with that man. Otherwise I would have been expected to deal with him. To this day the church has not grown.

God’s plan is so much bigger than just us.

 

[Pastor Sam]

Yes Diane...I was trying to force the financial secretary & treasurer to have the books audited and then they started investigating me to dig up dirt and it ended up with them voting me out using members that hadn't attended since shep was a pup...actually before shep was born.

 

[Pastor Sam]

Yes there is two sides to the story and from what I am getting you are on their side...I have tried to do right and I was at my last ministry for 14 years. We never had a problem getting the books audited. The church said it was to be done and it was. This church allowed a few to be bullies. I guess if you have something to hide you could be for no audit. I suppose our friend who is siding with the church who gave me the boot thinks that it is okay not to audit the books.

 

[gb93433]

Pastoring is much like a marriage. If they won't listen and respect you then it is time to move on. You really don't want any part of a church that will not have the integrity to be honest.

When I was in business we had the books audited every year. It’s an excellent practice.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

At my home church, we've got three CPAs in the congregation. Only one of them is envolved with the actual handling of funds. So, the other two keep everything open and above board. In fact, you'd think we were making SEC filings if you were to take a look at our quarterly and annual financial reports.

One lesson I've learned from this practice is people are more willing to give when they can see where their money is going.

 

[dianetavegia]

At our previous church, the pastor and assoc. pastor didn't see a need for the books to be audited until it was discovered the secretary had stolen at least $20,000.

Diane

 

[blackbird]

Our financial records are opened for "review" every four years----our Financial Officer is "above reproach"---and we have a system of "checks and balances"----though the real "fool proof "check and balance" is "checkin' and balancein'" like Jesus would "check and balance!" See??

-----for the income we have, its not worth going to jail over! Come to think about it---nothin' is worth going to the "Big House" for!! Nothin'!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Pastor Sam:
Yes there is two sides to the story and from what I am getting you are on their side...I have tried to do right and I was at my last ministry for 14 years. We never had a problem getting the books audited. The church said it was to be done and it was. This church allowed a few to be bullies. I guess if you have something to hide you could be for no audit. I suppose our friend who is siding with the church who gave me the boot thinks that it is okay not to audit the books.

No Pastor Sam, I am not on either side since I don't know the entire situation. My point is that it is very difficult to make a judgement, or to give advice without know both sides of the story. From what we have heard it sounds like you are right, but before "judgement can be passed" totally all must remember that there is another perspective.

An open forum such as this is not, imo, a place to air such differences. Some wise advice was given above, if you have done right and this church has done wrong, if you have followed Bible principles in trying to deal with it and been rejected, then all you can do is to leave it in the Lord's hands and move on.

Galatians 6v4 says that every man is to prove his own work, and then he can have "rejoicing in himself." If you have proved your own work with scripture and you are right, then rejoice in the fact that you have done right and then just leave it in the Lord's hands.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I'm not privy to any "facts" here other than what I've read and read and read on the subject by you. Just continual whine. Not even any cheese! Thread some months back on the exact same thing.

You have a problem with a brother, deal with it. But not HERE.

If you acted in your church like you are acting here, I would have joined with those voting you out. A pastor is to be ABOVE REPROACH and it sounds like there is a whole lotta reproach going on.

I've been ordained 30+ years and you ASKED for pastor's thoughts. You got mine. Consider it a strong rebuke.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

On the other hand, I know the pain of being betrayed. You would think that at least some of the pastors/preachers here would be familiar with it. Perhaps Pastor Sam's looking for someone - anyone to understand. And this kind of "drive-by" counseling by members of this BBS won't do the job.

Pastor Sam, although I don't know the situation, I gather that you feel betrayed. I have been deeply betrayed before. The pain and hurt is real - it never really goes away. It becomes a part of you. But I'm afraid you won't find the balm you need on this bulletin board. Ask God for healing, and that he'll send you a friend - someone you can talk to.