Yes, but these people were baptists.
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I was stunned to have white grape juice at Communion
- Thread starter Hermeneut7
- Start date
I went to a church that used blackcurrant juice and another which used non alcoholic communion wine, It said on the label it wasn't suitable to drink as a beverage. I suppose it had so many preservatives in it. I read in the history that some Baptists used port wine, and some probably still do.
John Gill, 18th Century English Baptist on Matthew 26:27
"It should be further known, that the wine at the passover, and so what Christ used at his supper, was red.
"Says R. Jeremiah {z} it is commanded to perform this duty, ביין אדום "with red wine".''
And elsewhere it is said {a}, "that it is necessary, that there should be in it (the wine) taste and look.''
The gloss on it is, שיהא אדום, "that it should be red": and which, as it most fitly represented the blood sprinkled on the door posts of the Israelites, when the Lord passed over their houses; so the blood of Christ, shed for the remission of the sins of his people.
{z} T. Hieros. Pesach. fol. 37. 3. & Sabbat, fol. 11. 1. {a} T. Bab. Pesach. fol. 108. 2. & R. Samuel ben Meir in ib."
John Gill was highly respected for his knowledge of the Jewish practices and belief.
"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (1Cor 11:23-25, KJV)
I cannot see using grape juice of any color as a substitute for red wine. Jesus said "this do", not something else do.
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" Matt. 28:20
"The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly se t down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is
to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men."
1742 Philadelphia Baptist Confession of Faith
I attended Lutheran and Anglican churches upon coming to Florida, before finding my current Baptist church. I was influenced by how serious these churches viewed the Eucharist, and I believe they are correct to insist on wine, not grape juice and neither of those churches used white wine and I see white wine mentioned nowhere in the Bible, only wine associated with red. There is an excellent article online on this subject:
Why I Would Abstain From Grape Juice in the Eucharist
"It should be further known, that the wine at the passover, and so what Christ used at his supper, was red.
"Says R. Jeremiah {z} it is commanded to perform this duty, ביין אדום "with red wine".''
And elsewhere it is said {a}, "that it is necessary, that there should be in it (the wine) taste and look.''
The gloss on it is, שיהא אדום, "that it should be red": and which, as it most fitly represented the blood sprinkled on the door posts of the Israelites, when the Lord passed over their houses; so the blood of Christ, shed for the remission of the sins of his people.
{z} T. Hieros. Pesach. fol. 37. 3. & Sabbat, fol. 11. 1. {a} T. Bab. Pesach. fol. 108. 2. & R. Samuel ben Meir in ib."
John Gill was highly respected for his knowledge of the Jewish practices and belief.
"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (1Cor 11:23-25, KJV)
I cannot see using grape juice of any color as a substitute for red wine. Jesus said "this do", not something else do.
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" Matt. 28:20
"The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly se t down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is
to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men."
1742 Philadelphia Baptist Confession of Faith
I attended Lutheran and Anglican churches upon coming to Florida, before finding my current Baptist church. I was influenced by how serious these churches viewed the Eucharist, and I believe they are correct to insist on wine, not grape juice and neither of those churches used white wine and I see white wine mentioned nowhere in the Bible, only wine associated with red. There is an excellent article online on this subject:
Why I Would Abstain From Grape Juice in the Eucharist
How about some magical words of transubstantiation with an appropriate mixture of kosher white wine and Welches dark juice. How does this apply to those of us who are color blind?
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
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...only if it is Diet Coke. Not sure about diet Twinkies--probably not available. This is a real dilemma--kind of like giving communion wine to an alcoholic "on the wagon"--Thomas Welch's unfermented wine to the rescue. How about some unsalted, gluten free, whole wheat crackers shaped in triangles and a choice of diet Welch's concord grapeaide or Mogen David 4%?
Sorry, folks, there are believers on this planet who have only Taro bread, coconut milk and water. Now what?
We seem overrun with legalistic typology--transubstantiation is in the mix too. Watch out for those 18 letter words.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
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And this is the major problem we see among American Christians. We don't so much want to Christianize the pagans as to Americanize them.
Converts in Pago Pago should use Welches and Unleavened bread. Except they don't have any.
Converts in Pago Pago should dress in suits, dress shirts, ties, and black leather shoes. Except they don't have any.
Converts in Pago Pago should only use the KJV bible (or your bible of choice). Except they don't read English.
Probably an alt-right deacon.
Nope, no suits. One of the best things we ever did was get rid of the suits.
People who study these things (who knew they existed?) say that the most popular wine in Judea at the time was made from raisins, was very strong and included a number of spices.
Probably not something you can pick up at the local store. If it was indeed the wine used at the Last Supper, are you improperly using a modern wine in your services?
To insist upon using the exact original elements is folly, in my view, because we simply don't know what was used. It is to elevate the substance of the elements above the intention of the ordinance and is, in fact, a form of sacramentalism.
Probably not something you can pick up at the local store. If it was indeed the wine used at the Last Supper, are you improperly using a modern wine in your services?
To insist upon using the exact original elements is folly, in my view, because we simply don't know what was used. It is to elevate the substance of the elements above the intention of the ordinance and is, in fact, a form of sacramentalism.
I was in a church once that served water.
I was in a church that served wine with communion. They offered grape juice for those who abstained from alcohol, but to distinguish it from the wine, they used white grape juice. I really disliked that idea; there's something that's missing in the symbolism there.
I believe it's the SPIRIT in which the drink and 'bread' are eaten that matters, NOT their actual substance. My church has served grape Gatorade and Great Value (Wal-Mart brand) vanilla wafers for Communion before, trying to use products that no one is allergic to. (Yes, we have scheduled foot-washings when the weather is appropriate.) as has been pointed out, people will use what's available in their time/place/culture. Again, it's the SPIRIT that's important, and that spirit is the remembrance of JESUS CHRIST, that He died for OUR sins. And the foot-washing is remembrance of being served and also serving.(Foot-washing was a great comfort for those in Jesus' time/place who mostly traveled by walking on hot, dusty roads, wearing sandals.)