I Will Build My Church 2

[percho]

This is the day Jehovah hath made, We rejoice and are glad in it. Ps 118:24
A stone the builders refused Hath become head of a corner. 118:22

 

[JD731]

You are making assumptions about my denomination that are not grounded in anything I have said. You do not know what my denomination is, and nothing in your reply reflects an understanding of it.

Yes, I agree and it is wrong to do it and I apologize for it. I have tried to keep this from sounding argumentative and have approached the question of when the church of Jesus Christ began from my understanding of the scriptures. I have refrained from addressing your points to a large extent and just posting my line of thinking along with the texts that proves the point. I still have several more points that are relative to the subject.

I will make this point. The preacher, Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes and observed this about creation.

1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

Solomon explains his point in the next few verses. He says nothing changes but history is unfolding in a circular manner. There is a way to look back and see what will happen to us.

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

This prophecy has a purpose and was inspired by God. He said the patterns were set by God and they follow his patterns until his purposes are accomplished. God does not change and we can look back because there are types and figures everywhere and we can learn his ways and know his mind if we can learn this.

For instance I read in Paul's letters about the church and how it is formed. It is called a new man in Eph 4 and when Paul gave instructions how a man should love his wife and sacrifice for her this has already been written for us to see.

The church and it's beginning compared to Adam and Eve and the beginning of the family of God.

Adam, was made by God in the world Soul, body, and the breath of life , the Spirit, a tripartite man. That is what Jesus is. "a body thou hast made me." Then God put Adam to sleep (death) and took the rib from his body and made a woman for a wife while he slept. ( you know, more than one psalm has some calling him to "awake O Lord, why sleepeth thou: careth thou not that we perish)." God gave her to him as a wife and "the two became one flesh." Adam loved his wife and because she was a sinner, he took her sin and died for her, enduring the curse of sin, death. "
"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1Timothy 2:14

This is just a couple similes out of many that can be made to show the ways of God of following his pattern. The church is not revealed in the OT but it is prefigured and both the first Adam was at a beginning of an age and the last Adam was at a beginning of an age.

The words of the NT are dependent on the words of the OT and they must remain as God has given them to us. They must not be changed and they must be believed. The Bible is an infinite book because it gives us the mind of God and those who are born again have the mind of Christ.

 

[Aaron]

Acts 7:38 does not place Christ’s church in the wilderness. Stephen is describing Israel assembled under Moses at Sinai. The word “church” in that verse is simply the Greek term ekklesia, meaning an assembly or congregation. It is used in Acts 19 for a civic gathering in Ephesus, and throughout Scripture for any assembled group. It does not mean the body Christ said He Himself would build.

Christ’s statement in Matthew 16:18 is precise: “I will build My church.” He is not referring to Moses’ congregation, nor to Israel as a nation, nor to any prior assembly. He is announcing something that belongs uniquely to Him, something He Himself will construct. The possessive pronoun marks the distinction. Moses did not build Christ’s church. Israel in the wilderness was not Christ’s church. Christ is declaring the beginning of His own assembly under His own authority.

Luke records the first act of that building in Luke 6:13. Christ called His disciples, gathered them, and named the twelve apostles. Paul later identifies these men as the foundation stones of Christ’s church (Eph. 2:20). That is the first constituted assembly under Christ’s direct headship. Nothing in Scripture says the church began in the wilderness, and nothing in Scripture says the church began at the resurrection. Christ began building His assembly during His earthly ministry, exactly as He said He would.

Acts 7:38 describes Israel gathered under Moses. Matthew 16:18 describes an assembly Christ Himself will build. Luke 6:13 records the beginning of that building. The two assemblies are not the same, and the text itself makes the distinction clear.

I do not believe that the congregation in the wilderness was in anyway the New Testament church.

The OT was the church in infancy. The NT is the church into adulthood.

Gal 3:21-4:7 - Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

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Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.​

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Eph 3:2-6 KJV - If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:​