If a Calvinist Preached on the Gospel from your Pulpit

[Reformed]

In fairness, slavery in that time period was worldwide. Europe had freed most of its slaves, but they had only recently done it. Was slavery wrong? Sure it was wrong, but it was not unique to the USA.

There were an estimated 4,000,000 slaves in 1860. The type of slavery practiced in the United States was chattel slavery; where slaves were deemed as property (see Dred Scott v. John F.A. Sandford). All the other issues such as the abuse of the Northern states, Southern economy, worldwide practice; these in no way justified man-stealing. Over 600,000 Americans were killed during the Civil War. The Southern economy was destroyed. There was never national repentance over that great sin, just as there is no national repentance over the sin of infanticide (abortion).

 

[Reformed]

My pastor may be a Calvinist, for all I know. He certainly does enjoy reading Spurgeon. But when we have time to sit down and converse, we seem to spend much more time discussing practical matters. Who needs assistance, or a visitation, how can we reach more people in our community...that sort of thing.

That is as it should be.

 

[Reynolds]

There were an estimated 4,000,000 slaves in 1860. The type of slavery practiced in the United States was chattel slavery; where slaves were deemed as property (see Dred Scott v. John F.A. Sandford). All the other issues such as the abuse of the Northern states, Southern economy, worldwide practice; these in no way justified man-stealing. Over 600,000 Americans were killed during the Civil War. The Southern economy was destroyed. There was never national repentance over that great sin, just as there is no national repentance over the sin of infanticide (abortion).

As I said, the problem was worldwide. Slavery was not unique to the USA. Europe, for all practical purposes had freed its domestic slaves and enslaved its colonial on their native soil.

 

[thatbrian]

No. Just those who fall into the vortex of my capricious nature. Any other questions?

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No further questions. The Piperesque apologies/racial reconciliation stuff is just a bit too much for me.

 

[thatbrian]

My pastor may be a Calvinist, for all I know. He certainly does enjoy reading Spurgeon. But when we have time to sit down and converse, we seem to spend much more time discussing practical matters. Who needs assistance, or a visitation, how can we reach more people in our community...that sort of thing.

There is a time and season for all things. . . However, I would fault an undercover Calvinist pastor if he were not training the men in the church in some serious theology (over a few pints, of course).

The Church has been so dumbed down that we have a real crisis on our hands. Theology matters.

 

[Reformed]

As I said, the problem was worldwide. Slavery was not unique to the USA. Europe, for all practical purposes had freed its domestic slaves and enslaved its colonial on their native soil.

This is going to be my last post in this thread on the topic of slavery.

So, what is your point? It seems like you are trying to cushion the impact chattel slavery had on this nation. It should be condemned without any qualifying statement.

Anyway, I will not discuss this topic further in this thread.

 

[Reformed]

No further questions. The Piperesque apologies/racial reconciliation stuff is just a bit too much for me.

Then you misunderstand me. I am not advocating any type of apology or reconciliation, just a recognition that some of our theological heroes come with baggage. I am sure some of my own favorite characters from history have their own skeletons in their closets. It is helpful to know these things because it allows us to see what the person was like warts and all. Does Spurgeon have ghosts from his past? Bunyan? Gill? I do not know. I am not particularly worried about it but it helps to know.

I read an online article once about why the P.C.A. was having a difficult time attracting black members. There was one black gentleman who was quoted as saying (and I paraphrase), "Did you ever think the systemic racism of 19th Century Presbyterians is reason enough for blacks to feel unwelcome?" The man had a point. So, if I am a fan of Dabney, I may want to know more about the man than just his theological writings. After all, is his written theology in sync with the way he lived his life?

 

[thatbrian]

Then you misunderstand me. I am not advocating any type of apology or reconciliation, just a recognition that some of our theological heroes come with baggage. I am sure some of my own favorite characters from history have their own skeletons in their closets. It is helpful to know these things because it allows us to see what the person was like warts and all. Does Spurgeon have ghosts from his past? Bunyan? Gill? I do not know. I am not particularly worried about it but it helps to know.

I read an online article once about why the P.C.A. was having a difficult time attracting black members. There was one black gentleman who was quoted as saying (and I paraphrase), "Did you ever think the systemic racism of 19th Century Presbyterians is reason enough for blacks to feel unwelcome?" The man had a point. So, if I am a fan of Dabney, I may want to know more about the man than just his theological writings. After all, is his written theology in sync with the way he lived his life?

Blacks, Italians, Mexicans. . . don't flock to the PCA, and I'm not at home in a fundy IFBC.

Black churches are 99.999% black, yet no one complains that they aren't "diverse".

Have you been to a PCA service? I have. It's a WASPy 75 minutes that almost no one but a blue-blood would feel comfortable in. That's Okay. People prefer to be with similar people with similar practices.

 

[Reynolds]

This is going to be my last post in this thread on the topic of slavery.

So, what is your point? It seems like you are trying to cushion the impact chattel slavery had on this nation. It should be condemned without any qualifying statement.

Anyway, I will not discuss this topic further in this thread.

It was very the norm of that time. Judge historical figures by the standards of their time, not by the standards of our time? Whk brought up slavery in this thread? Not me!

 

[Iconoclast]

It was very the norm of that time. Judge historical figures by the standards of their time, not by the standards of our time? Whk brought up slavery in this thread? Not me!

Some people will bring up off topic posts to disrupt a discussion of truth...They do not welcome such truth as a rule, so they seek to discredit those who write or teach truth....mark such persons and avoid them;
rom16:
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

such people repeat this over and over......

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2 AM Pacific.

 

[Reformed]

Blacks, Italians, Mexicans. . . don't flock to the PCA, and I'm not at home in a fundy IFBC.

Black churches are 99.999% black, yet no one complains that they aren't "diverse".

Have you been to a PCA service? I have. It's a WASPy 75 minutes that almost no one but a blue-blood would feel comfortable in. That's Okay. People prefer to be with similar people with similar practices.

It was very the norm of that time. Judge historical figures by the standards of their time, not by the standards of our time? Whk brought up slavery in this thread? Not me!

I brought slavery up when talking about some historical figures who were mentioned. I regret doing that as I derailed my own thread.

 

[Reformed]

As this thread is about to be closed, let me offer some concluding thoughts. If a Calvinist preacher were to proclaim the Gospel from your pulpit this Lords day you would hear that Gospel boldly proclaimed. I am referring to a sound, biblical preacher; one who confesses that the Bible is the sole authority for all matters of faith and practice. You may not agree with his Monergist theology, but you will be hard-pressed to find any fault with his message, so long as that message is steeped in God's word. And there is the key, for it is not because it is not anything special that the preacher possesses, but rather it is the power of the Gospel itself when proclaimed in power and truth.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2 AM Pacific.