If a Christian commits suicide...

[standingfirminChrist]

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

If a person who professes Christ tells a lie, and feels no conviction, I would say that person is saved.

I also believe when a true christian sins, God's chastening hand rebukes and corrects that christian.

As to suicide, I believe, because God says Thou shalt not kill and He chastens whom He loveth, and all murderers will be cast into the lake of fire, He will keep His children from killing themselves.

As I posted on another thread, look at all the trials of Paul, and yet through it all, Paul never committed suicide. In fact, Paul said, We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To say a christian can commit suicide is to say Christ is not able to keep that person from falling at the very hardest time in that person's life.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

[Helen]

My husband brought up something yesterday when we were talking about this thread. He mentioned, and I know it is true from my studies as well, that in Oriental societies, suicide was considered the honorable thing to do under certain circumstances.

I know that doesn't make it right, and I am not arguing that it does. But I also know that we ALL carry an awful lot of cultural baggage around with our faiths, and that there are those for whom suicide even today would seem honorable -- maybe because of culture, maybe to save family members needing to care for someone with a long, debilitating illness -- whatever.

Suicide is not always simply an act of depressed desperation. Sometimes it is the giving up of one's life for another, which, as our Lord said, is real love. Sometimes that giving up of a life doesn't simply mean just a life of service for another, but actually giving up of one's life.

I have a Lord who did this, and saved me.

And I am terribly grateful that in this, as well as other disputed (among people) matters, the Lord judges the heart.

I wish this horrid thread were closed.

 

[Gina B]

I don't think anyone's really gotten anywhere, or that anyone has had any change of heart because of this thread.

If they have, I'd sure like to hear it. It would be interesting to know if all this has made any difference to anyone.

My final thought: (I think)

I am thankful for a God that keeps his promises. I have hope in Christ because I know that his promises are not in vain.
When he promises eternal salvation, he means it.
Even the gates of hell will not prevail against the power of God.
I am safe, and not forsaken. He is always there, whether I'm walking by his side or trying to drown myself in the depths of the sea and hide from his presence.
I trust in that promise. I trust in my God. I will not attribute false promises to my God, and simply am not capable of believing there are loopholes within the promise.

Have a great day, and rejoice in the Lord. Always.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SUICIDE AND THE BIBLE

By Pastor Bert Singletary
Manzano Baptist Church
12411 Linn Ave. NE, Albuquerque, NM 87123

Over 25,000 Americans commit suicide each year. Over one million will try but only one out of fifteen will succeed. Suicide is the tenth highest killer in the U.S. More will die by suicide than by murder. In the average population, eleven out of 100,000 will commit suicide. In Los Angeles it is 41 per 100,000. The model age for attempting suicide is 32 for men and 27 for women. The model age of succeeding is 50-54 for men and women. Men kill themselves twice as often as women, but women attempt suicide twice as often as men. There are over 5,000 suicides among teen-agers each year. Some 10,000 college students will attempt suicide in a year. Suicide is the second highest cause of death among young people aged 15-24 surpassed only by accidents. Thirteen young adults each day consider life not worth the living.

That is twice as many as ten years ago and three times as many as twenty years ago. It has increased eleven fold over the past 20 years in the college students.

For many years Japan has had a very high suicide rate. Japan has a very high culture and education but it shows the effects of education without God and the Bible. Sweden has the leading suicide rate in the world. This is not surprising because it was Sweden that led the world in "free love", sex education, permissiveness and situation ethics. Now we see our own society going the same way as Japan and Sweden.

Click here for the rest of the story...

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
SUICIDE AND THE BIBLE

By Pastor Bert Singletary
Manzano Baptist Church
12411 Linn Ave. NE, Albuquerque, NM 87123

Over 25,000 Americans commit suicide each year. Over one million will try but only one out of fifteen will succeed. Suicide is the tenth highest killer in the U.S. More will die by suicide than by murder. In the average population, eleven out of 100,000 will commit suicide. In Los Angeles it is 41 per 100,000. The model age for attempting suicide is 32 for men and 27 for women. The model age of succeeding is 50-54 for men and women. Men kill themselves twice as often as women, but women attempt suicide twice as often as men. There are over 5,000 suicides among teen-agers each year. Some 10,000 college students will attempt suicide in a year. Suicide is the second highest cause of death among young people aged 15-24 surpassed only by accidents. Thirteen young adults each day consider life not worth the living.

That is twice as many as ten years ago and three times as many as twenty years ago. It has increased eleven fold over the past 20 years in the college students.

For many years Japan has had a very high suicide rate. Japan has a very high culture and education but it shows the effects of education without God and the Bible. Sweden has the leading suicide rate in the world. This is not surprising because it was Sweden that led the world in "free love", sex education, permissiveness and situation ethics. Now we see our own society going the same way as Japan and Sweden.

Click here for the rest of the story...

If you follow the link you posted, you will find this paragraph by David Cloud:

I do believe it is possible for a truly born again Christian to take his own life because of despondency or because of an ailment which affects the mind or for some other reason. There is at least one example of this in the Bible, and that is the case of Samson. Hebrews 11:32 leaves no doubt that he was a true believer.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
LadyEagle, they attack not me, but the Spirit of Christ that is in me.

I attack not you, only your unscriptural posts. I have no problem with the spirit of God within you, and have nt once attacked it. You can find no post whatsoever that attacks the Spirit of God within you.

you are not attacking my doctrine, you are attacking God's Holy Word

God's Holy Word does not say what you're claiming.

... just because a person makes a profession of faith does not necessarily mean that person is saved.

But that's not the issue. The issue is whether a person who is saved, who commits suicide, will be in heaven. Scripture makes it abundantly clear that if a person is saved, s/he will be in heaven, regardless of their sins.

 

[Helen]

Standing, I understand that you are fighting against suicide, and I totally applaud that. However, in taking the stand that you do, you are causing total despair in the lives of some whose relatives, dearly beloved, have committed suicide, for whatever reason.

Can't you be content with simply saying that yes, suicide is wrong, but God judges the heart?

Please stop the damage you are doing in the hearts of some of the readers. It is not our place to cause despair and loss of hope in the hearts of some of the readers here. It is our place to turn their tearful eyes toward a loving and merciful God who will always do what is right and who knows the hearts of all, which is something we can never do or never know.

Thank you.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

The warning to the Church at Sardis applies equally to us.

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
************************************************

You are dead.

I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Defilng their garments means to return againto Sin and Saten ruling their lives. There is a warning to repent.

Some have been faithful and will walk with Christ in white (in heaven). Those that overcome (are faithful to the end) will be clothed in white (in Heaven) and their names will not be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Those who do not persevere will not be clothed in white and their names will be blotter out of the Book of Life.

I would say that they have fallen from grace.

 

[In His Grace]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
SUICIDE AND THE BIBLE

By Pastor Bert Singletary
Manzano Baptist Church
12411 Linn Ave. NE, Albuquerque, NM 87123

Over 25,000 Americans commit suicide each year. Over one million will try but only one out of fifteen will succeed. Suicide is the tenth highest killer in the U.S. More will die by suicide than by murder. In the average population, eleven out of 100,000 will commit suicide. In Los Angeles it is 41 per 100,000. The model age for attempting suicide is 32 for men and 27 for women. The model age of succeeding is 50-54 for men and women. Men kill themselves twice as often as women, but women attempt suicide twice as often as men. There are over 5,000 suicides among teen-agers each year. Some 10,000 college students will attempt suicide in a year. Suicide is the second highest cause of death among young people aged 15-24 surpassed only by accidents. Thirteen young adults each day consider life not worth the living.

That is twice as many as ten years ago and three times as many as twenty years ago. It has increased eleven fold over the past 20 years in the college students.

For many years Japan has had a very high suicide rate. Japan has a very high culture and education but it shows the effects of education without God and the Bible. Sweden has the leading suicide rate in the world. This is not surprising because it was Sweden that led the world in "free love", sex education, permissiveness and situation ethics. Now we see our own society going the same way as Japan and Sweden.

Click here for the rest of the story...

If you follow the link you posted, you will find this paragraph by David Cloud:

I do believe it is possible for a truly born again Christian to take his own life because of despondency or because of an ailment which affects the mind or for some other reason. There is at least one example of this in the Bible, and that is the case of Samson. Hebrews 11:32 leaves no doubt that he was a true believer. </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting observation Terry_Herrington,

I wonder if standingfirminChrist read it also.

 

[TEXASGRANDMA]

Helen,

Thank you. Only those of us who have had loved ones commit suicide knows the pain. Our Pastor who not only knew my sister was a Christian but read the letter she left talking about how much she loved God. He told us from the begining that we should have peace knowing that my sister is with Jesus.
Any one who says different is ignorant, seeing how they did not know my sister.

God bless you Helen and your couraging for speaking out in behalf of families like mine.
betty

 

[standingfirminChrist]

As I have posted, I have had loved ones to commit suicide. They professed Christ, but apparently did not place full trust in Him.

The Bible plainly states that God will not allow more to be put on us than we can bear, but will with the temptation, make a way of escape.

People are tempted to commit suicide, so the way of escaping that temptation is killing themselves? Not even logical?

If He will make a way of escape, and people do not take that way of escape, they are not fully putting their trust in a loving Lord and Savior.

 

[HankD]

If He will make a way of escape, and people do not take that way of escape, they are not fully putting their trust in a loving Lord and Savior.

OK, so they don't take the way of escape. Peter denied the Lord rather than owning up that he knew him. He didn't trust the Lord for a way of escape but instead lied, cursed and swore.

To not take the way of escape is not the unpardonable sin.

HankD

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The unpardonable sin is attributing the work of the Lord or the Holy Ghost to the devil.

 

[HankD]

The unpardonable sin is attributing the work of the Lord or the Holy Ghost to the devil.

Exactly.

HankD

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
People are tempted to commit suicide, so the way of escaping that temptation is killing themselves?

Some people commit suicide because they suffer from bipolar disorder. In fact, 20% of bipolar sufferers end up taking their own lives. I myself had a close friend who was bipolar and committed suicide last year. He was ten times the devout and faithful Christian that I'll ever be. You've decided that he's in hell, when I know with scriptural certainty that he is not. I choose God's Word over yours.

 

[Charles Meadows]

However, in taking the stand that you do, you are causing total despair in the lives of some whose relatives, dearly beloved, have committed suicide, for whatever reason.

That's correct Helen.

This subject is just not even debatable really.

While committing suicide is certainly wrong it does not mean that the person who did it is not a Christian. Standingfirm is 100% wrong on this. The ONLY sin which is not forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. If suicide is unforgiveable by God then Jesus was wrong.

Case closed!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

And if suicide is ok, then God is wrong.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Case closed!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
And if suicide is ok, then God is wrong.

No one said suicide is "ok". What's at issue is your claim that suicide prevents a person (regardless of whether they're saved or not) from heaven. That makes grace conditional, and salvation contingent upon works. This is anti-scriptural. No, wait, that is downright heretical.

Case closed!

Have you ever lied? If so, then according to Revelation 21:8, you're going to Hell. Case closed.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
The unpardonable sin is attributing the work of the Lord or the Holy Ghost to the devil.

...and that's it, suicide not included in the "unpardonable" aspect, because it IS pardonable.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Standingfirm,

Suicide is SIN. But because of Jesus sin is forgivable - even suicide.

Do you deny that Jesus' blood is eficacious for all sin.

If you insist that suicide is not forgivable then you believe that Jesus was wrong when He said that only one sin was unforgivable.