If a Christian supports Trump...

[JonShaff]

And why DID He order the genocide of the amalekytes?
Who are today's amalekytes? Unborn babies, if you prefer one candidate?

wait wait wait, So you're blaming Christians for people murdering their babies? Please rethink that. Maybe we should be witnessing and sharing the Gospel with more young ladies, let them get Born Again, and see how much they appreciate life. Making Laws doesn't make sin go away, just ask Israel.

 

[Alcott]

Israel who?
If you want to support a candidate who sees a fetus as an amalekyte-- or as Hitler saw a Jew-- then B.Hillary's for you. The best we can say itabout Trump in regard to that is he *might* proceed (meaning court appointments) otherwise.

 

[evenifigoalone]

To know why specific instructions were given I feel you'd need to have an idea the historical context.

Israel was a theocracy, until they decided they wanted kings at least. Even after that God still directly gave instructions. God doesn't directly speak to nation's leaders today.
The New Testament doesn't give any instructions regarding governments, we are only told to carry out the great commission and how to treat others on an individual level. It does say God allows governments to rise to power. As corrupt as governments can be, they do at least provide some amount of protection against the evil of others. I believe that's probably why.
I do not believe we can claim to speak for God using a particular political ideology. God will come in His own time and set up His own kingdom. Until then, our role is simply to witness.

 

[Benjamin]

that was quite the deceitful thing to do.

I would suggest if you don’t want your argument defined for you then don’t quote a 2 paragraph argument against you and reply with a mousy 5 word statement using “it” as the premise of your opponent’s argument while trying to suggest a conclusion that you have a superior view of trusting God.

My entire argument was centered around the premise I injected into that “it” you weaseled on in your “reply”, but you are certainly free to explain what “it” out of my argument you were addressing as my premise in which you disagree with and feel you are instead trusting God if not the premise I offered.

As for your calling my defining your argument in your next reply as “quite the deceitful thing to do” I can hardly take that accusation serious when it is obvious for all to see that I added in my premise (in brackets) to define your attempt to weasel on my premise with “it” and that your attempt to play that Ad hominem card of calling me deceitful was merely another fallacious way which continues to avoid addressing my actual argument. FYI, I realize the preferred method of debate around here is to dodge arguments and to ride on the backs of rabbits while merely addressing the personal stuff, and you may not understand the value of using these kinds of critical thinking skills to draw out the truth in a debate which I also mentioned in my argument, but frankly, if you only want to pursue those kinds of tactics in this discussion I’ve pretty much outgrown those kinds of “debates” and have no interest of chasing those rabbits.


Now, if you want to man up and actually address my argument rather than pursue weaseling and Ad Hominem tactics here it is again:

JonShaff said: ↑
Here's the reality, You want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want to be a Christian in the MOST COMFORTABLE atmosphere as possible. You want the world to conform to your standards.

Benjamin said:

Here's the thing, I can smell a Liberal Globalist mentality from a mile away. And behind that mentality is same kind of thinking that is allowing Christian principles and rights to be stepped on while Extreme Radical Islamist are allowed to spread terror around the world and our borders are left unprotected. The murder of unborn is being allowed to rise to the point of the day before birth and government corruption is left unchecked while our country get gets sold out on the Global Market. - And I have people trying to tell me I just want "MOST COMFORTABLE atmosphere as possible" while trying to convince me and others to stick their heads in the sand and you are calling this a form Christianity.

No thanks! Not buying it! I've not only taught my children to stand up for Christian values in truth but that to achieve that truth requires critical thinking skills to be involved in deciding one's actions. What you suggest in neither action or based on the truth concerning standing up for Christian values - it is "merely" a liberal worldly ploy to spread Globalism, which some Christians have unfortunately bought into and it is dangerous, irresponsible and foolish handling of the blessings we have been granted as Christian and should preserve in this sovereign nation, period.

 

[InTheLight]

Here's the thing, I can smell a Liberal Globalist mentality from a mile away.

while our country get gets sold out on the Global Market.

it is "merely" a liberal worldly ploy to spread Globalism, which some Christians have unfortunately bought into

Speaking of Globalists...

Trump Eyes Goldman Alum Mnuchin for Treasury Secretary

Donald Trump is signaling that he wants to appoint his campaign finance chairman, Steven Mnuchin, as Treasury secretary, according to a person close to the campaign.

Trump's preference for the Goldman Sachs alumnus is the latest evidence that the GOP presidential nominee would be inclined to hire officials with experience in the business world should he win next week's election, despite the anti-establishment tone that has dominated the campaign.

Mnuchin worked for 17 years at Goldman Sachs. He later led OneWest Bank, which was sold to CIT Group in 2015. He now serves on CIT's board and is the chairman and chief executive of the private investment firm Dune Capital Management.

"Word that Trump would go with Steven Mnuchin as Treasury secretary suggests that in choosing between his populist political persona and his life story as a rich kid turned businessman, a President Trump would be little different than, say, a President Romney," said Jeff Hauser, director of the Revolving Door Project.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/steven-mnuchin-treasury-donald-trump-230716#ixzz4OzTy00ep

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

 

[Benjamin]

Speaking of Globalists...

Here is the subject of Globalism being discussed which has to do if I am to pursue maintaining and preserving Christian values rather than allowing these walked all over while my head is in the sand.

You want to be a Christian in the MOST COMFORTABLE atmosphere as possible. You want the world to conform to your standards.

The point being I do not agree with the liberal values that it is wrong to have standards of preserving our way of life in our country. Not interested in chasing your type of rabbits either.

 

[JonShaff]

I would suggest if you don’t want your argument defined for you then don’t quote a 2 paragraph argument against you and reply with a mousy 5 word statement using “it” as the premise of your opponent’s argument while trying to suggest a conclusion that you have a superior view of trusting God.

My entire argument was centered around the premise I injected into that “it” you weaseled on in your “reply”, but you are certainly free to explain what “it” out of my argument you were addressing as my premise in which you disagree with and feel you are instead trusting God if not the premise I offered.

As for your calling my defining your argument in your next reply as “quite the deceitful thing to do” I can hardly take that accusation serious when it is obvious for all to see that I added in my premise (in brackets) to define your attempt to weasel on my premise with “it” and that your attempt to play that Ad hominem card of calling me deceitful was merely another fallacious way which continues to avoid addressing my actual argument. FYI, I realize the preferred method of debate around here is to dodge arguments and to ride on the backs of rabbits while merely addressing the personal stuff, and you may not understand the value of using these kinds of critical thinking skills to draw out the truth in a debate which I also mentioned in my argument, but frankly, if you only want to pursue those kinds of tactics in this discussion I’ve pretty much outgrown those kinds of “debates” and have no interest of chasing those rabbits.


Now, if you want to man up and actually address my argument rather than pursue weaseling and Ad Hominem tactics here it is again:

First of all, i addressed scripture (implicitly) and you addressed your sociological political ideologies. I'm not going debate someone who has a humanistic bent. You want to Address what the Scriptures teach? let's do that. You want to discuss what King Jesus taught? let's do that. All i heard from your post was, "I, I, I, Me, me, My, my...."

What do you want to do? Look at Scripture or not?

 

[Benjamin]

First of all, i addressed scripture (implicitly)...

No you didn't, not in the slightest. Here it is:

Here's the reality, You want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want to be a Christian in the MOST COMFORTABLE atmosphere as possible. You want the world to conform to your standards. You want the easiest Christian walk as possible. You want an environment that is conducive to YOUR BRAND of Christianity. And you are willing to vote in such a way (So you think) that you will be able to live this comfortable Christian life until you die or Jesus Comes back. You have absolutely no idea what environment will be most conducive to a Thriving Church body where people actually see the Mighty hand of God Work.

...and you addressed your sociological political ideologies.

No, I addressed your sociological political ideologies, directly, pretty much point by point.

I'm not going debate someone who has a humanistic bent.

Excuse me! Grow up and stop with the Ad Hominem!

You want to Address what the Scriptures teach? let's do that. You want to discuss what King Jesus taught?

Do you even know what rabbit trails are?

Here is hint:

...let's do that.

All i heard from your post was, "I, I, I, Me, me, My, my...."

Apparently, not really much I can do about your comprehension issues...

What do you want to do? Look at Scripture or not?

You've already shown you apparently can't follow a discussion and refuse to address the points your opponent has made to you while you value answering with weasels, Ad Hominem and rabbit trails, so a lack of critical thinking skills. For you to attempt to force fit your Globalist ideologies into the scriptures while obviously not being able keep up with the premises and conclusions along the way, well, it seems rather pointless for me to engage in a theological discussion with you of which I'm confident you'd also be out of your league in that discussion as well. Therefore, no thanks.

 

[JonShaff]

No you didn't, not in the slightest. Here it is:




No, I addressed your sociological political ideologies, directly, pretty much point by point.


Excuse me! Grow up and stop with the Ad Hominem!



Do you even know what rabbit trails are?

Here is hint:




Apparently, not really much I can do about your comprehension issues...



You've already shown you apparently can't follow a discussion and refuse to address the points your opponent has made to you while you value answering with weasels, Ad Hominem and rabbit trails, so a lack of critical thinking skills. For you to attempt to force fit your Globalist ideologies into the scriptures while obviously not being able keep up with the premises and conclusions along the way, well, it seems rather pointless for me to engage in a theological discussion with you of which I'm confident you'd also be out of your league in that discussion as well. Therefore, no thanks.

Our warfare isn't against flesh and blood, and it especially isn't against brother and sister. You do what you think is right, and i'll do what i think is right. In the end, we are both accountable to the Lord. With all that talk of yours want to preserve Christian values, i really hope you're soul-winning/disciple making. Because you can vote "correctly" all day long, but if you're not making disciples who cares.

 

[JonShaff]

I agree with Piper

 

[Lewis]

You do what you think is right, and i'll do what i think is right. In the end, we are both accountable to the Lord.

Will do.

"But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare." This is what I intend to do. Other believers in Christ may have different opinions on how to vote.

I would guess that Christians who sport an "I'm with Her" or "Bernie For President" sticker on their car could alienate just as many prospective disciples as any Trump signs. But some here have decided that it's only Trump supporters who are not qualified to make disciples.

 

[Zaac]

Our warfare isn't against flesh and blood, and it especially isn't against brother and sister. You do what you think is right, and i'll do what i think is right. In the end, we are both accountable to the Lord. With all that talk of yours want to preserve Christian values, i really hope you're soul-winning/disciple making. Because you can vote "correctly" all day long, but if you're not making disciples who cares.

BINGO! And I'll bet ya that nine times out of ten, that the folks supporting Trump don't care about their Christian witness because they aren't witnessing the Gospel to anyone.

Yep. I said it.



Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[Alcott]

God doesn't directly speak to nation's leaders today.

Then it's not true-- is it?-- as you-know-who has repeatedly posted, that this election is a "moral one?"

 

[evenifigoalone]

Different people are going to have different views. I see a lot of what is being said on the forum right now as scare tactics and ridiculous guilt tripping.

Government does have to do with morals since part of it's purpose is to protect the rights of it's citizens. That is a moral position as it does claim certain acts to be inherently wrong and treat them as they are. The debate, I suppose, would be how far the government should reach into dictating the morals.
In any case, I am not of the view that supporting Trump, or Hillary for that matter, (or third parties), automatically makes one immoral. Who you support as a candidate can have many factors behind it, and you don't necessarily have to like a candidate to vote for them. It's also going to depend upon your political ideology, which I personally believe has little to do with Scripture. (I prefer to judge political ideologies on practice.)