If a person is on an Island, and all they find is John 3:16, will believing that save them?

[KenH]

Ken you are just avoiding the question. How do you deal with the question?

The same way that Vincent Cheung does. I see no need to come up with some original wording on my part when someone else has already explained a matter quite well. I see no need to redo it so that I can say, "Mine!".

 

[Silverhair]

You falsely claim that Calvinists teach that God keeps a person from seeing and savoring Jesus.
You wrote:
"What is it that keeps a person from seeing and savoring the Christ of all saving grace?

If you're a consistent Calvinist it's God."

You have no clue. I shared the passage in Romans 1 and you still respond with cluelessness.


I shared Romans 1 to you as the answer to your false claim and now you call it philosophy. You are falsely speaking.


Wrong again. You demand an interpretation from a sentence with no concern for the context around the sentence. When I interpret from the whole of God's Word, you call it philosophy. Meanwhile,you interpret like a Muslim interprets the Bible...ignoring context. I do not interpret that way and I do not apologize for not using your poor hermeneutics.


God has caused me to believe His entire word and to believe that He is Supreme over all things. Silverhair, it is what the Bible teaches, even though you hate this truth.


I already answered it in post 133.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
~ Romans 1:18-19,21-25

You falsely claim that Calvinists teach that God keeps a person from seeing and savoring Jesus.
You wrote:
"What is it that keeps a person from seeing and savoring the Christ of all saving grace?

If you're a consistent Calvinist it's God."

You have no clue. I shared the passage in Romans 1 and you still respond with cluelessness.


I shared Romans 1 to you as the answer to your false claim and now you call it philosophy. You are falsely speaking.


Wrong again. You demand an interpretation from a sentence with no concern for the context around the sentence. When I interpret from the whole of God's Word, you call it philosophy. Meanwhile,you interpret like a Muslim interprets the Bible...ignoring context. I do not interpret that way and I do not apologize for not using your poor hermeneutics.


God has caused me to believe His entire word and to believe that He is Supreme over all things. Silverhair, it is what the Bible teaches, even though you hate this truth.


I already answered it in post 133.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
~ Romans 1:18-19,21-25

Austin I do not see why you have to become so nasty. I ask a clear question and you avoid it. Are you a Calvinist or not? If you are and your a consistent one then you have a problem and denying that problem will not make it go away.
You want your version of God to determine all things but then not determine all things when it does not suit you. Pick a lane.

God is sovereign and He can do what He pleases with His creation. That includes allowing man to have a real free will so that man is truly responsible for their eternal future just as the bible says.
If you can or will not see this then it is because you are being willfully blind. You are following a man-made philosophy and interpreting the bible through that system rather than judging that system by the bible.

Perhaps God will grant you the wisdom to see the error of your way.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Pro 3:6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.
Pro 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

 

[AustinC]

Austin I do not see why you have to become so nasty. I ask a clear question and you avoid it. Are you a Calvinist or not? If you are and your a consistent one then you have a problem and denying that problem will not make it go away.
You want your version of God to determine all things but then not determine all things when it does not suit you. Pick a lane.

God is sovereign and He can do what He pleases with His creation. That includes allowing man to have a real free will so that man is truly responsible for their eternal future just as the bible says.
If you can or will not see this then it is because you are being willfully blind. You are following a man-made philosophy and interpreting the bible through that system rather than judging that system by the bible.

Perhaps God will grant you the wisdom to see the error of your way.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Pro 3:6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.
Pro 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

You keep projecting your man-centered theories and call any rejection of your man-centered theory "nasty."
Silverhair, your use of the Bible for your man-centered agenda is anathema and thus, until you change and repent of your message there is nothing left for us to say. I consider your message to be false teaching.

 

[Silverhair]

The same way that Vincent Cheung does. I see no need to come up with some original wording on my part when someone else has already explained a matter quite well. I see no need to redo it so that I can say, "Mine!".

But there is the problem, I do not care to read his response. I asked you how you can deal with the inconsistencies that you have in your theology? You want God to determine all thinks yet when the reality of that view are pointed out to you then you deny that He determines what you do not like. As I said to Austin, pick a lane.

 

[KenH]

You want God to determine all thinks yet when the reality of that view are pointed out to you then you deny that He determines what you do not like.

Please point out where I have ever denied "that He determines what you do not like."

 

[Silverhair]

You keep projecting your man-centered theories and call any rejection of your man-centered theory "nasty."
Silverhair, your use of the Bible for your man-centered agenda is anathema and thus, until you change and repent of your message there is nothing left for us to say. I consider your message to be false teaching.

What do you consider false teaching?
That God is sovereign?
That He can do with His creation as He pleases?
That He can allow man to have a free will if He chooses?
That man is held responsible for the choices they make?

Or do you think this is a false teaching
If you are and your a consistent one then you have a problem and denying that problem will not make it go away.
You want your version of God to determine all things but then not determine all things when it does not suit you.

You need to humble yourself before God, your arrogance is your blind spot. Proverbs 3:5-7

 

[KenH]

But there is the problem, I do not care to read his response.

Then you indicate that you don't really care to know the reasoning behind my position. A couple of pages is not like I am suggesting that you read a whole book.

 

[KenH]

That He can allow man to have a free will if He chooses?

That view of yours is nothing more than Deism.

 

[Silverhair]

Then you indicate that you don't really care to know the reasoning behind my position. A couple of pages is not like I am suggesting that you read a whole book.

But you still avoid the elephant in the room.

I asked you how you can deal with the inconsistencies that you have in your theology?

 

[KenH]

But you still avoid the elephant in the room.

I asked you how you can deal with the inconsistencies that you have in your theology?

I am not aware of any. Can you list them? Even one of them? Specifically, not in some vague generality?

 

[Silverhair]

Please point out where I have ever denied "that He determines what you do not like."

So then you agree that God is the one that determines all those that are sent to hell. So, according to you, since His decision can not be overruled then those that are in hell do have a real excuse and fair complaint against God.
Yet you will say that is not true as man chose to be there by rejecting God and sinning. But how can that be true if, as you claim, God determines all things. As I said pick a lane.

 

[KenH]

So then you agree that God is the one that determines all those that are sent to hell. So, according to you, since His decision can not be overruled then those that are in hell do have a real excuse and fair complaint against God.
Yet you will say that is not true as man chose to be there by rejecting God and sinning. But how can that be true if, as you claim, God determines all things. As I said pick a lane.

It is explained in the passage from Vincent Cheung's book I offered to you. Either read it or else stop your false accusations about me being inconsistent.

 

[Silverhair]

I am not aware of any. Can you list them? Even one of them? Specifically, not in some vague generality?

God determines all thing every man will do BUT he does not determine the sin that man will do. I do notice that whenever someone puts any of those of the deterministic view on the spot they always run for cover.

I have asked you to deal with the inconsistencies of your view and you have yet to do that. Telling me what someone else thinks is not you. Your theology requires you to say black is really white.

 

[KenH]

So then you agree that God is the one that determines all those that are sent to hell. So, according to you, since His decision can not be overruled then those that are in hell do have a real excuse and fair complaint against God.
Yet you will say that is not true as man chose to be there by rejecting God and sinning. But how can that be true if, as you claim, God determines all things. As I said pick a lane.

Here is part of what Vincent Cheung wrote in his Systematic Theology:

"God's will determines all the choices and circumstances of his creatures, so that nothing is up to man's "free will." In fact, because God is completely sovereign, man has no free will:

All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. (Psalms 139:16)

The LORD works out everything for his own ends – even the wicked for a day of disaster. (Proverbs 16:4)

In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps. (Proverbs 16:9)

A man's steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way? (Proverbs 20:24)

The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases. (Proverbs 21:1)

All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?" (Daniel 4:35)

Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." (James 4:13-15)"

 

[KenH]

God determines all thing every man will do BUT he does not determine the sin that man will do. I do notice that whenever someone puts any of those of the deterministic view on the spot they always run for cover.

God certainly does "determine the sin that man will do" or else God is not God and is not sovereign. I don't run for cover from this. You have misjudged me, sir.

From Daniel 4:35 He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth.

 

[Silverhair]

It is explained in the passage from Vincent Cheung's book I offered to you. Either read it or else stop your false accusations about me being inconsistent.

Then answer the initial question.

"What is it that keeps a person from seeing and savoring the Christ of all saving grace?

If you're a consistent Calvinist it's God. God is keeping one from seeing God and yet their held responsible for not seeing God.

Remember your version of God is "totally absolutely 100% sovereign" so anything that happens or does not happen, He determines. So how or why is the man that rejects God held responsible for doing so as he is actually doing exactly what God has determined for him to do."

That should not be hard for you to answer. You just keep avoiding the question.

 

[Silverhair]

That view of yours is nothing more than Deism.

Now your saying that the bible preaches Deism. That's dangerous ground for you to step on.

 

[KenH]

So how or why is the man that rejects God held responsible for doing so as he is actually doing exactly what God has determined for him to do.

Because God says that He does. Man is the one who actually commits sin and God has declared man wrong for sinning. God is not answerable to you, Silverhair, for what He does. You, Silverhair, are answerable to God for what you do. Get that straight in your head, sir.

 

[KenH]

Now your saying that the bible preaches Deism. That's dangerous ground for you to step on.

Not dangerous at all, as what you are teaching is not Biblical.

 

[Silverhair]

Here is part of what Vincent Cheung wrote in his Systematic Theology:

"God's will determines all the choices and circumstances of his creatures, so that nothing is up to man's "free will." In fact, because God is completely sovereign, man has no free will:

All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. (Psalms 139:16)

The LORD works out everything for his own ends – even the wicked for a day of disaster. (Proverbs 16:4)

In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps. (Proverbs 16:9)

A man's steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way? (Proverbs 20:24)

The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases. (Proverbs 21:1)

All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?" (Daniel 4:35)

Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." (James 4:13-15)"

That is just his way of supporting his view. If you want to believe him that is your choice, well actually it's not as God must have determined you do do so. I mean you have no free will do you.
His quoting verses at random still does not answer the question that you keep avoiding.