Equating a small portion of Paul's heartfelt confession (and that's what it was) in Rom 7 with justification for homosexual behavior or any other pattern of sin is a gross misapplication of wise hermeneutics. This is commonly referred to as eisegesis, reading a meaning into a passage that you wish to find, rather than exegesis, which is discovering the meaning that is honestly there.
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If certain "Baptists" don't believe the Bible is God's Holy Word,
- Thread starter LadyEagle
- Start date
Originally posted by Alex:
Originally posted by post-it:
[QB]I hope you don't get sick laughing, post it, but as a liberal you completely missed the point because you don't want to accept the truth. The LEVEL of the sins of homosexuality and murder and rape and adultry......ARE ONE AND THE SAME as per the bible but you probabily threw that part out as man made.
God Bless..........Alex
Originally posted by post-it:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Alex:
Originally posted by post-it:
[QB]I hope you don't get sick laughing, post it, but as a liberal you completely missed the point because you don't want to accept the truth. The LEVEL of the sins of homosexuality and murder and rape and adultry......ARE ONE AND THE SAME as per the bible but you probabily threw that part out as man made.
God Bless..........AlexI go with what God says. It isn't about what I think it should be whether it would be the death penalty or not but it should be what God said about it. Actually that is the overall problem with the moral decay that is growing faster and faster, mans word rather than God's and most of this from the Christian element, is from the liberal's views!
God Bless.......Alex
[ September 15, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]
Tom, Paul makes it clear in this "confession" that there is a difference between sin that you can control and sin that the body (flesh) will do naturally and continuously from now on. But he makes it clear that it is not HIM that is sinning but rather the Flesh. So a homosexual Christian is not sinning, there is no sin for a Christian. There are two entities in one. The spirit that can't sin and is pure for eternity and the body which will continue in some unstoppable sins.
Conflict Here!
In 1 Corinthians, a "brother" may be have turned to a life of sin and will not make it into heaven.
[ September 16, 2002, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
Conflict Here!
In 1 Corinthians, a "brother" may be have turned to a life of sin and will not make it into heaven.
[ September 16, 2002, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
So you think that the Bible and God says we should kill all homosexuals. Ok, I'm having you fit for a nice canvas jacket with a neat belt located at the end of each sleeve tonight.
Give me a break... moral decay comes in cycles. A society goes from liberal to conservative and back again. Always with some different avenue of decay. Your same song has been with us since the beginning of time. If it really went one way only, we would have no morals today.Actually that is the overall problem with the moral decay that is growing faster and faster, mans word rather than God's and most of this from the Christian element, is from the liberal's views!
Post it:
Now you are saying that (I) said it should be the death penatly. That is not what I said: Repeat.It is what God said!!!!!!!!!!!! As a human I CAN'T change God's Word the way I would like it to be. So you don't continue getting twisted, I do not(as a human) think it should be the death penalty but that is not what God said! And as someone else has already said, the NT doesn't show any change of this particular part of the OT. There must be plenty that do think this as a Gay was beat to death in California this week. Now, they should get the death penalty, but again, you don't believe in that either or am I mistaken?
At the least, any Christian of any good standards should at least SHOW these verses in the OT to Homos and let then decide, if they are Christians. It clearly is a WARNING.
As for moral decay, I think you are wrong about cycles of decay. This is a continuing decay that is getting worse and worse, especially now with the overall view that anything is ok.
God Bless.........Alex
[ September 16, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]
Now you are saying that (I) said it should be the death penatly. That is not what I said: Repeat.It is what God said!!!!!!!!!!!! As a human I CAN'T change God's Word the way I would like it to be. So you don't continue getting twisted, I do not(as a human) think it should be the death penalty but that is not what God said! And as someone else has already said, the NT doesn't show any change of this particular part of the OT. There must be plenty that do think this as a Gay was beat to death in California this week. Now, they should get the death penalty, but again, you don't believe in that either or am I mistaken?
At the least, any Christian of any good standards should at least SHOW these verses in the OT to Homos and let then decide, if they are Christians. It clearly is a WARNING.
As for moral decay, I think you are wrong about cycles of decay. This is a continuing decay that is getting worse and worse, especially now with the overall view that anything is ok.
God Bless.........Alex
[ September 16, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]
The author of Lev. wrote that God said to kill the homosexual. If a vote came up today in your State to follow the Biblical Punishment for homosexuality, should we all vote it in since God said it and you feel nothing has changed sin Lev was written?
I believe in the Death Penalty for the types of crime it is used for in Texas, horrific or multiple murders.
Such a view is a gross misinterpretation of Rom 7, born out of faulty usage of hermeneutics. It is eisegetical because Paul does not make the distinctions he is accused of making. These are superimposed by the interpreter at the expense of scholarly interpretation. The view espoused is commonly referred to in Biblical times as Gnosticism, a false teaching that Galatians, 1 John, and other writings were composed to counter. Gnosticism creates a harder distinction than necessary between body and spirit, claiming that the acts of one do not affect the acts of another. This view is flawed due to the existence of Biblical and medical evidence. I recommend you do a little more study, particularly in the appropriate NT books and Pauline literature, in order to correct your misunderstandings. Also, a good scholarly work on hermeneutics would help you. Bernard Ramm, Grant Osbourne, Moises Silva, Daniel Doriani, Vern Poythress, et. al. have excellent works for starters.
See y'all in a couple of days. I need the time off! Play nice!
Play nice? Are you kidding? LOL!
Agree with your above post, TomVols. Thanks for clarifying for us.
Actually, could I go even one step further and bring in the point that adultery and fornication also affect a person's spirit?
Interesting how this thread has made all these twists & turns, but some really good posts here.
Agree with your above post, TomVols. Thanks for clarifying for us.
Actually, could I go even one step further and bring in the point that adultery and fornication also affect a person's spirit?
Interesting how this thread has made all these twists & turns, but some really good posts here.
Such a view is a gross misinterpretation of Rom 7, born out of faulty usage of hermeneutics. It is eisegetical because Paul does not make the distinctions he is accused of making. These are superimposed by the interpreter at the expense of scholarly interpretation. The view espoused is commonly referred to in Biblical times as Gnosticism, a false teaching that Galatians, 1 John, and other writings were composed to counter. Gnosticism creates a harder distinction than necessary between body and spirit, claiming that the acts of one do not affect the acts of another. This view is flawed due to the existence of Biblical and medical evidence. I recommend you do a little more study, particularly in the appropriate NT books and Pauline literature, in order to correct your misunderstandings. Also, a good scholarly work on hermeneutics would help you. Bernard Ramm, Grant Osbourne, Moises Silva, Daniel Doriani, Vern Poythress, et. al. have excellent works for starters.
See y'all in a couple of days. I need the time off! Play nice!</font>[/QUOTE]Don't think I hold to the interpretation I just gave, I certainly believe that a Christian can sin and that sin can result in bad circumstances. You had asked for the conflict in a prior post and I gave you the conflict in scripture about his "confession." Paul opened a can of worms with this proclamation that took some time to correct. Not because he was wrong, but because the people misunderstood the concept.
There is a fine line here that makes both extremes (the conflict) correct. We will continue to sin, yet we shouldn't desire to sin at the degree as we did before salvation. We should also have much more control over any desire to sin. Choosing a life of sin can separate us more from Christ, on and on. Yet still, we will sin to some degree because we still are in a battle with the flesh still. Yet we are still saved and that sin will not count against us.
My Dear friend post it
Just curious, but how can two extremes on the same subject both be true? If one says it is black and the other says it is white, it can't be both OR maybe I'm missing something.
It's kinda like the extremes of Heaven and Hell, one is good and the other is bad.
God Bless.........Alex
PS: Do you believe that Christians will be judged on judgement day for sins comitted AFTER being saved and thus we all will be on a different "plane" in Heaven? The reference is to the jewels in your crown.
Just curious, but how can two extremes on the same subject both be true? If one says it is black and the other says it is white, it can't be both OR maybe I'm missing something.
It's kinda like the extremes of Heaven and Hell, one is good and the other is bad.
God Bless.........Alex
PS: Do you believe that Christians will be judged on judgement day for sins comitted AFTER being saved and thus we all will be on a different "plane" in Heaven? The reference is to the jewels in your crown.
Robert J Hutton
New Member
The question right at the beginning started off:
"If certain Baptists don't believe the Bible is God's Holy Word" I would finish the sentence by saying....."then they are apostates who need to repent and be saved."
"If certain Baptists don't believe the Bible is God's Holy Word" I would finish the sentence by saying....."then they are apostates who need to repent and be saved."
What are you talking about? Certainly not what we were. I'll accept that you must not have been reading the context. Unless you are saying that Paul wrote this part, not God. I don't think you are meaning to say that.Originally posted by Alex:
My Dear friend post it
Just curious, but how can two extremes on the same subject both be true? If one says it is black and the other says it is white, it can't be both OR maybe I'm missing something.
It's kinda like the extremes of Heaven and Hell, one is good and the other is bad.
God Bless.........Alex
PS: Do you believe that Christians will be judged on judgement day for sins comitted AFTER being saved and thus we all will be on a different "plane" in Heaven? The reference is to the jewels in your crown.
Maverick
Member
I John 5 seems to be indicating that believing the record is very important. Yes, we are saved by Jesus, but the Bible is the record and if we do not believe the record we are condemned because we made God a liar. If He could not save/preserve all of His Word how do we know if He was able to preserve the salvational issues? Either He preserved it all or not at all and we are still dead in our sins. You can't have a pick and choose Burger King have it your way Bible. It is all or nothing. If you add or take away from it, He is angry and insulted and that causes you BIG trouble.
If that is how you feel, you may lose your faith when you learn about the various different copies of the original (which we don't have) and put your trust in the 50 men who transalated as well as picked and chose which versions to write the KJV from. Several different versions of "his Word" have been perserved. The problem is no one knows which one is the real exact one much less where the originals are that these versions where copied from. Each of these copies have different wordings therefore, we don't know which one, if any, are the exact words of God.
If on the other hand, you believed the Bible to only be inspired without exact wordings from God, and even problems with some meanings, then the preserved editions, even though we don't know which one is the best transalation, is good enough and proves that God has kept his word alive.