Featured If faith is predestined and cause by God, then answer me this.....

I think that was what was called, 'Hardshell'?

 

Well, I'll say that's certainly been the attitude of many I have talked with who are Calvinist. And understandably given some of their beliefs about election.

 

No, not understandably so. If you have met such people they are what are called hyper-calvinist which is not biblical.

 

Saving faith is more than an intellectual assent to the truths of Scripture. Good works do not save, but the faith by which we are justified is not a faith that has good works as the fruits or evidence thereof.

“What doth it profit my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, and one say unto them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself. Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith. Thou believest that God is one; thou dost well: the demons also believe, and shudder.” (James 2:14-19 ASV)

 

If you look at the history of missions you will find it chalk full of "Calvinists" spreading the gospel. Why, you might ask? Because many Calvinists are also ammillenialists who view Christ returning when the last of the elect comes to faith. The way the gospel reaches to every tribe, nation and tongue is through going and sharing the gospel. Therefore, Calvinists have traditionally been some of the most missional Christians you can find.
Old Army, it might help you to study up on this subject.

 

I think that it is possible to make one’s faith into their righteousness or believes that they deserve salvation because of their faith. The truth is that our faith does not merit our salvation nor is it our righteousness, but by faith we lay hold of the righteousness of Jesus Christ and rest in His finished work. I do not believe that one has to understand the new birth and regeneration to be saved. They certainly must be regenerated and drawn to faith by God, but one can be saved and be trusting in Christ alone without understanding regeneration and how it is monergistic. One can believe in man inherit sinfulness and that we all stand condemned on our own merits without knowing about the new birth or effectual calling.

 

Well, then the pastor that discipled me for almost 2 years was a hyper Calvinist, in a OPC. Just seemed like a full on no apologies 5 point Calvinist to me. But then I didn't know anything about Calvinism going in.

God used him (my former pastor) and "it" (hyper Calvinism) though because eventually it started driving me deeper and deeper in study of His word. (To refute some of what my then pastor was asserting) Not just in reading and learning scripture, but in the history and textual criticism, understanding translations etc. Which all just strengthened my faith in Him and His word.

Ultimately I stopped being on the fence and became comfortable with where I stand on my view/understanding.

 

There was no more ardent Calvinist than Charles Spurgeon but he preached the gospel fervently, pleading with sinners to repent and believe. What is lost on non-Calvinists is that Calvinist view the gospel as the ordinary means of salvation. God calls the elect through the the proclamation of the gospel. Spurgeon knew this. That is why he pleaded with sinners to repent and believe. He did not know if a person was elect but he knew God ordained the gospel as the means by which the elect are called. He did the simple math. Preach the gospel to all because it is God's command in order for all the sheep to be brought into the fold.

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All he great evangelists in the past were calvinists.

Luther believed that man only had freewill to sin. after he left the Roman church he said that henceforth he wished to be known as an evangelist.

Spurgeon was one of the greatest evangelists

As it happened, about two or three weeks ago a couple moved from Sweden to come to our church to learn the Doctrines of Grace becase they couldn't find ay in Sweden that taught it.

 

That's not true that all the great evangelist in the past were Calvinist. Certainly exaggeration is not necessary. This reminds me of the false claim that the man who wrote the song "amazing grace" John Newton was a Calvinist.Or that C.S. Lewis was a Calvinist All false claims. Whitfeild was as great as a evangelist as was your precious Spurgeon. You should not make false claims you are unable to prove. There is none great but God.
Those people from Sweden only had to travel to Switzerland and they could have heard it from where it began.
MB.

 

So you disagreed, but did not answer.

 

Of course I answered. There is no way to read that verse to say the flesh is good. And you ignored the other references I gave. Look, I get it, you don't understand theology. That's fine. But you should really try harder.

 

Your so habitual in all your answers. No one could understand you doctrine who are you kidding? It's not biblical it's nothing more than the assumptions of man.
MB

 

Yeah, because I never give Scripture or anything.....

 

Nice emoticon...

 

Nothing wrong with using emoticons if you are actually responding with something other than the emoticon. My point when you did it was that you used it to dodge the issue.

 

I had already addressed it 5 times over so the only thing left was

 

You addressed that you believed that, without evidence, and then your evidence, which was nothing but hearsay, was proven to be false, yet you kept it up and wouldn't retract your false witness.

 

Any one can give scripture and make claims about them but your claims don't hold water. Paul would of called you comments dung.
MB