If Faith Was Our Righteousness, An Imperfect Faith Would Be Fatal to All Hope

[KenH]

' God reckons the believing man as having done all righteousness, though he has not done any, and though his faith is not righteousness. In this sense it is that faith is counted to us for, or in order to, righteousness, - and that we are "justified by faith." Faith does not justify as a work, or as a moral act, or a piece of goodness, nor as a gift of the Spirit, but simply because it is the bond between us and the Substitute; a very slender bond in one sense, but strong as iron in another. The work of Christ for us is the object of faith; the Spirit's work in us is that which produces this faith: it is out of the former, not of the latter, that our peace and justification come. Without the touch of the rod the water would not have gushed forth; yet it was the rock, and not the rod, that contained the water. ...

Faith is not our savior. It was not faith that was born at Bethlehem and died on Golgotha for us. It was not faith that loved us, and gave itself for us; that bore our sins in its own body on the tree; that died and rose again for our sins. Faith is one thing, the Savior is another. Faith is one thing, and the cross is another. Let us not confound them, nor ascribe to a poor, imperfect act of man, that which belongs exclusively to the Son of the Living God.

Faith is not perfection. Yet only by perfection can we be saved; either our own or another's. That which is imperfect cannot justify, and an imperfect faith could not in any sense be a righteousness. If it is to justify, it must be perfect. It must be like "the Lamb, without blemish and without spot." An imperfect faith may connect us with the perfection of another; but it cannot of itself do aught for us, either in protecting us from wrath or securing the divine acquittal. All faith here is imperfect; and our security is this, that it matters not how poor or weak our faith may be: if it touches the perfect One, all is well. The touch draws out the virtue that is in Him, and we are saved. The slightest imperfection in our faith, if faith were our righteousness, would be fatal to every hope. But the imperfection of our faith, however great, if faith be but the approximation or contact between us and the fullness of the Substitute, is no hindrance to our participation of His righteousness. God has asked and provided a perfect righteousness; He nowhere asks nor expects a perfect faith. An earthenware pitcher can convey water to a traveler's thirsty lips as well as one of gold; nay, a broken vessel, even if there be but "a shard to take water from the pit" (Isa 30:14), will suffice. So a feeble, very feeble faith, will connect us with the righteousness of the Son of God; the faith, perhaps, that can only cry, "Lord, I believe; help mine unbelief." '

Horatius Bonar, "The Everlasting Righteousness"

 

[KenH]

The whole book is online here: The Everlasting Righteousness (monergism.com)

 

[tyndale1946]

The bringer of the sacrifice into the tabernacle was to lay his hand upon the head of the sheep or the bullock, otherwise the offering would not have been accepted for him. But the laying on of his hand was not the same as the victim on which it was laid. The serpent bitten Israelite was to look at the uplifted serpent of brass in order to be healed. But his looking was not the brazen serpent. We may say it was his looking that healed him, just as the Lord said, "Thy faith hath saved thee"; but this is figurative language. It was not his act of looking that healed him, but the object to which he looked. So faith is not our righteousness: it merely knits us to the righteous One, and makes us partakers of His righteousness. By a natural figure of speech, faith is often magnified into something great; whereas it is really nothing but our consenting to be saved by another: its supposed magnitude is derived from the greatness of the object which it grasps, the excellence of the righteousness which it accepts. Its preciousness is not its own, but the preciousness of Him to whom it links us.

Faith is not our physician; it only brings us to the Physician. It is not even our medicine; it only administers the medicine, divinely prepared by Him who "healeth all our diseases." In all our believing, let us remember God's word to Israel: "I am Jehovah, that healeth thee" (Exo 14:26). Our faith is but our touching Jesus; and what is even this, in reality, but His touching us?

Faith is not our savior. It was not faith that was born at Bethlehem and died on Golgotha for us. It was not faith that loved us, and gave itself for us; that bore our sins in its own body on the tree; that died and rose again for our sins. Faith is one thing, the Savior is another. Faith is one thing, and the cross is another. Let us not confound them, nor ascribe to a poor, imperfect act of man, that which belongs exclusively to the Son of the Living God.

Horatius Bonar, "The Everlasting Righteousness"... Chapter 7, Not Faith But Christ... Page 77... Brother Glen

 

[agedman]

I really dislike disagreeing, but I do.

Human hope is not the faith that comes by the hearing ears opened by the word from God.

That which is the conduit of all from God is not constructed by the human, but by God.

By faith Able, by faith Noah, by faith Abraham, by faith ..., Not once is it by the faith of Able, by the faith of Noah, by the faith of Abraham...

How unfortunate it is that human faith is considered acceptable to God. If such were true, then other attributes and even the flesh and blood would also be acceptable. But they are not. There is nothing remarkable to be found in a human that God would choose one over the other. It is totally of His purpose in which he molds a person from their conception into that which He desires.

Why then should it be surprising that faith is conduit laid by the handiwork of God in which one may express not only praise but carry out His purpose?

 

[DaveXR650]

How unfortunate it is that human faith is considered acceptable to God. If such were true, then other attributes and even the flesh and blood would also be acceptable. But they are not.

I don't see where this is not simple, reformed, orthodox Puritan teaching. If you are saying that there is some human contrived faith which I think you mean by the way you say "human" faith almost as a pejorative term then you need to reread the above posts - Bonar nowhere suggests that. But if you are so hyper-Calvinistic that you don't think faith is exercised by the human then you are wrong. Also, just by the definition of what faith is it stands unique and by itself compared to anything else - even without getting into disputes over the origin. Explain yourself.

 

[agedman]

I don't see where this is not simple, reformed, orthodox Puritan teaching. If you are saying that there is some human contrived faith which I think you mean by the way you say "human" faith almost as a pejorative term then you need to reread the above posts - Bonar nowhere suggests that. But if you are so hyper-Calvinistic that you don't think faith is exercised by the human then you are wrong. Also, just by the definition of what faith is it stands unique and by itself compared to anything else - even without getting into disputes over the origin. Explain yourself.

i quote from post one:

…our security is this, that it matters not how poor or weak our faith may be: if it touches the perfect One, all is well. The touch draws out the virtue that is in Him, and we are saved. The slightest imperfection in our faith, if faith were our righteousness, would be fatal to every hope. But the imperfection of our faith, however great, if faith be but the approximation or contact between us and the fullness of the Substitute, is no hindrance to our participation of His righteousness. God has asked and provided a perfect righteousness; He nowhere asks nor expects a perfect faith.

​

Therefore, that which is imperfect is that which resides in the new creation?

Nope.

 

[agedman]

In the Hebrews 11 passage, in the midst of the list is this verse.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.​

Now, here is a question.

Knowing the Scriptures teach, that the nature of the unredeemed is adamantly opposed with animosity to things of God, then who will approach Him and Who will seek Him?


Believers. “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Therefore, again, how is one attain hearing?

“Faith comes by hearing, and hearing (comes) by the word of God.”

God does not respond to imperfect faith, but that which is from Him.

 

[DaveXR650]

OK. I see where you are coming from. Those references in post 1 about imperfect faith are just referencing the fact that a person looks to Christ or comes to him possibly in a way that has limited knowledge of doctrinal issues or the person may be somewhat weak. Richard Sibbes famous work on I think it's called "The Bruised Reed" talks about this. Faith is only the instrument of our justification or as they say "the hand reaching out to receive salvation" so Bonar is trying to assure someone who is wanting to come to Christ but might be thinking "no way would a Holy God forgive me".

As to the second part - if I understand you right, you and some of the other Calvinists confuse people the way you describe the gift of faith. Your last 3 sentences are very confusing. Faith is instrumental in our salvation. (Justification, to be precise.) It is a "condition" for our salvation - in the sense that it is a receiving of the pardon offered by God and in the sense that without it you do not have salvation. In typical Reformed theology our will is so impaired that we are totally unable to have faith on our own so the work of the Spirit which we call "effectual calling" enables us to respond with saving faith. See WCF Q67. But WE respond. You really confuse people when you make faith seem like it's something God pumps into you and then turns around and says now I'm satisfied to see that.

Horatius Bonar was a Calvinist. The reason I like him is that he writes beautifully, for one thing, but more importantly, he I think bridges the gap between the traditional Baptist evangelicalism that I come from and Calvinism. As much as I love the Puritans, they were weak in evangelism. Bonar, like Spurgeon did better at that. Over on the Puritan Board plug Bonar into the search function and you will see he is highly respected although some say he was too much of a "free grace" kind of a guy.

 

[percho]

for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. Rom 5:19
much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath; Rom 5:9


for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor 5:21

In the verse above from 2 Cor 5:9; Does, the faith, through which we are saved and or through which we are righteous, in the eyes of God, belong under, He did make or under, we may become, that is I assume if we believe something?

 

[agedman]

@percho and @DaveXR650

I appreciate your response, and at one time I also was of similar thinking as Bonar.

Percho referred to both Romans 5 and 2 Cor. 5 and I picked up from there to give another verse to show that a believer’s faith is not extracted from innate human ability, but given by Grace in Salvation.


“That we may become righteous…” is not dependent upon human faith but solely the work of God through Christ.

I realize that some translators place “by” rather then “through” in the following verse, but here is the Berean and the KJV renderings of Galatians 2:


Berean Literal Bible

I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.
​

KJV

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

The faith of a believer is not human innate faulty faith, but that “by (through) of (from) the Son oh God.”

It must remain that there is nothing done to believe accept believe. This is shown in John 1 where others turn away from the light and those that remain in the light become the children of God. Remaining in the light is not a work, for the light is given. The work is when one turns from the light.

 

[DaveXR650]

A question for anyone on here. Is there anything you can say to a person regarding their salvation? I'm serious. There has to be some point where the person themselves links with the Christian faith. Faith, by definition does this. I am not saying that you conjure this up on your own. The WCF doesn't say that and neither does Bonar. But do YOU have to believe. I think there is a brand of I guess Calvinism that goes so far that they have a problem with a person coming to Christ by faith. Oh my goodness!

 

[KenH]

. Is there anything you can say to a person regarding their salvation?

Do you mean something like this?

Romans 10:14-15 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

 

[agedman]

A question for anyone on here. Is there anything you can say to a person regarding their salvation? I'm serious. There has to be some point where the person themselves links with the Christian faith. Faith, by definition does this. I am not saying that you conjure this up on your own. The WCF doesn't say that and neither does Bonar. But do YOU have to believe. I think there is a brand of I guess Calvinism that goes so far that they have a problem with a person coming to Christ by faith. Oh my goodness!

I have no problem with one coming to Christ by faith!

The problem is from whence comes that faith?

Romans is clear that faith is not innate but comes by one given ears to hear by the Scriptures.

Psychology a person may change only by self effort in overcoming or something in their core belief system changes.

God makes such a change “by (or through) the faith of the Son” and that person cannot withhold the expression of belief and faith in Christ.

Romans 8

8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

​

 

[DaveXR650]

What you are saying is true. And I understand it on a theological debate forum if you are debating a semi-Pelagian who believes that Christ has died and now God is waiting to reward those with sense enough to believe with eternal life. But that is not what Bonar is doing. The question some of you guys need to ask yourself is have you gone so far in trying to present a pure gospel that honors God that you are being too precise. It was God that ordained the means of salvation and he wants people to come by faith. We have a warrant to tell people that. That is what Bonar does. His writing is to people who hopefully are under conviction - and the "effectual call" is starting to happen. Chapter 7 of his book "The Everlasting Righteousness" is entitled "Not Faith but Christ". Regarding the brazen serpent he said "We may say that it was his looking that healed him; but this is figurative language. It was not his act of looking that healed him but the object to which he looked. So faith is not our righteousness: it merely knits us to the righteousness One".

 

[agedman]

What you are saying is true. And I understand it on a theological debate forum if you are debating a semi-Pelagian who believes that Christ has died and now God is waiting to reward those with sense enough to believe with eternal life. But that is not what Bonar is doing. The question some of you guys need to ask yourself is have you gone so far in trying to present a pure gospel that honors God that you are being too precise. It was God that ordained the means of salvation and he wants people to come by faith. We have a warrant to tell people that. That is what Bonar does. His writing is to people who hopefully are under conviction - and the "effectual call" is starting to happen. Chapter 7 of his book "The Everlasting Righteousness" is entitled "Not Faith but Christ". Regarding the brazen serpent he said "We may say that it was his looking that healed him; but this is figurative language. It was not his act of looking that healed him but the object to which he looked. So faith is not our righteousness: it merely knits us to the righteousness One".

And to a point he is correct.

Where we differ is the source of faith. That it is perfect and draws believers ever closer to that which is holy in two ways.
First is that it attends to the Holy Spirit gifts as we grow in wisdom and knowledge of the Savior. Such gifts as joy, longsuffering, meekness, gentleness....
Second is that it attends to the Holy Spirit imploring us to add to that faith such as what is personal, thought, motive, and motivational. Such as Peter says, "Add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self control, ..."

There is stability in the Holy Spirit gifting a faulty faith, nor one building upon the root and rock that which is frail.

But being rooted (agriculturally) and grounded (architecturally) as the Apostle wrote:

17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.​

 

[percho]

IMHO the purist understanding in the Word of God of what, the faith, is, is this.

Romans 5:1 CSB, Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace[fn] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.


I have said a million times on these forums, I know, no Greek. I might also add, even though I was born and raised in MS, not much English either, especially grammar. That said let me ask those who have studied the Greek. Being faith above is in the genitive, would not a better understanding be the following?

CSB Therefore, since we have been declared righteous out of faith, we have peace[fn] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
YLT Having been declared righteous, then, by [out of] faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

IE righteousness through faith ----- Now then a little more concerning that, righteousness.

Romans 5:19 YLT for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted [declared, made] righteous.

Now we have two words tied to our being made righteous, faith and obedience. Let's talk a little about, the obedience.

Jesus, the Word, made flesh is about to die, be dead, because of our sins. Somehow another death and God do not seen to go together to me. Somehow to me they seem opposite. God is to be, I Am and death is not to be. Relative to the Son of God to God the Father that is what is about to take place.

Matt 26:38 YLT then saith he to them, 'Exceedingly sorrowful is my soul -- unto death; abide ye here, and watch with me.'
Luke 22:42-44 YLT saying, 'Father, if Thou be counselling to make this cup pass from me --; but, not my will, but Thine be done.'
-- And there appeared to him a messenger from heaven strengthening him; and having been in agony, he was more earnestly praying, and his sweat became, as it were, great drops of blood falling upon the ground. -------------------Right up until:
Matt 27:46 and about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a great voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, 'My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?' ---------Then=
Luke 23:46 YLT Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit.

Was Jesus the Son of the Living God putting his very being into the hands of God the Father?

What did he learn?

Hebrews 5:7,8 YLT who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,

Obedience of what, relative to out being declared/made/constituted righteous?

Was it not: Obedience of faith ? Whose obedience, whose faith?

Consequently, the faith, out of hearing, the yet hearing, through of word of God Rom 10:17

God calls people to declare, what he through his Son, has done for people. You hear the faith whether you believe it or not. IMHO

 

[percho]

Now consider what I wrote above to the following.

this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or [out] of hearing of faith? --- Gal 3:2 Genitive
And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, < Word of God>

That will also dovetail back to Gal 2:16 which, "agedman," posted. Faith of Christ.

 

[percho]

Relative to my post above, consider.

and the law is not by [out of] [genitive] faith, but -- 'The man who did them shall live in them.' Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law, having become for us a curse, for it hath been written, 'Cursed is every one who is hanging on a tree,' [the wages of sin. made him who knew no sin, sin] that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. [That being, Christ made sin, dying on a tree, made our curse] the faith Gal 3:12-14

The Spirit of Truth you received because of the faith of Christ translates you of unbelief unto of belief.

Christ in you the hope of glory.

 

[percho]

Hebrews 12:2 ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν ὃς ἀντὶ τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς ὑπέμεινεν σταυρὸν αἰσχύνης καταφρονήσας ἐν δεξιᾷ τε τοῦ θρόνου τοῦ θεοῦ εκάθισεν TR

looking to the, of the faith, author and perfecter [finisher] -- Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him -- did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;

Do we finish and or perfect faith by believing or do we believe because it was authored and perfected?