If I think it is a sin?

[Salty]

From another thread:

... certain things we come to believe as Christians will be that which God judges our actions upon. ... and they violate that belief, then it will of course be sin for that individual. Even if it wasn't something specifically noted as sin in Scripture, either explicitly or implicitly. ....

(bold my emphasis)

Darrell,
I disagree!

For example - if I believed (and usually based on what a Baptist preacher told us in the past) that - for example - it is a sin to take a nap on Sunday Afternoon - that is a sin because we should be doing something for the Lord. (NOTE: this is NOT a "what if" Years ago, an evangelist came to our church and stated that exact doctrine! At the time I was a teen - so I took his advice and stop taking naps on Sundays!.

Well years later - I found that many good Christians, both "lay" and ministers did nap on Sunday afternoons!

So If I went by Darrell's statement - I would have been sinning by taking a Sunday nap!
But there is NOTHING scriptural against a Sunday Nap - thus I was NOT sinning! If anything - the Lords day should be a day of Rest!

So what are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[Darrell C]

From another thread:

(bold my emphasis)

Darrell,
I disagree!

For example - if I believed (and usually based on what a Baptist preacher told us in the past) that - for example - it is a sin to take a nap on Sunday Afternoon - that is a sin because we should be doing something for the Lord. (NOTE: this is NOT a "what if" Years ago, an evangelist came to our church and stated that exact doctrine! At the time I was a teen - so I took his advice and stop taking naps on Sundays!.

Well years later - I found that many good Christians, both "lay" and ministers did nap on Sunday afternoons!

So If I went by Darrell's statement - I would have been sinning by taking a Sunday nap!
But there is NOTHING scriptural against a Sunday Nap - thus I was NOT sinning! If anything - the Lords day should be a day of Rest!

So what are your thoughts on this subject?

I still maintain that you would have been judged according to the violation of what you viewed to be sin.

It didn't make taking a nap on Sunday a sin, but it would have you violating what you believed to be sin.

It is the corollary to James' statement: if you know to something is good and do it not, it is sin; if you know not to do something and do it—for you it is sin. Because you are doing according to your will, not according to what you know (howbeit in error) God's will is for you.

And I envy (sin?) those who are actually able to get a nap in on Sunday. I try every Sunday, and usually cannot. And usually it is my two-year-old yellow Lab that thinks it is a sin for me not to be paying attention to him that disturbs those efforts.

But God judging us based on our understanding is, in my studies, simply a basic principle taught in Scripture. I praise God for His mercy. He has always made provision for sin done in ignorance.


God bless.

 

[JesusFan]

From another thread:

(bold my emphasis)

Darrell,
I disagree!

For example - if I believed (and usually based on what a Baptist preacher told us in the past) that - for example - it is a sin to take a nap on Sunday Afternoon - that is a sin because we should be doing something for the Lord. (NOTE: this is NOT a "what if" Years ago, an evangelist came to our church and stated that exact doctrine! At the time I was a teen - so I took his advice and stop taking naps on Sundays!.

Well years later - I found that many good Christians, both "lay" and ministers did nap on Sunday afternoons!

So If I went by Darrell's statement - I would have been sinning by taking a Sunday nap!
But there is NOTHING scriptural against a Sunday Nap - thus I was NOT sinning! If anything - the Lords day should be a day of Rest!

So what are your thoughts on this subject?

There are black and whites in the Bible, and many grays, based upon our own personal convictions and preferences!

IF one is persuaded and convicted No alcohol is permitted to a Christian period, one should refrain from partaking, but one must not judge another whose faith allows for a cup of wine at the dinner table!

 

[AustinC]

Normative vs Regulative principle.
Has God given us a regulation for the subject? If so, then follow that regulation.
Has God not spoken on a subject? Then follow your conscience and receive God's grace on the subject.

 

[JesusFan]

Normative vs Regulative principle.
Has God given us a regulation for the subject? If so, then follow that regulation.
Has God not spoken on a subject? Then follow your conscience and receive God's grace on the subject.

Some though would say if not given forth in Bible directly Ok to do, God has forbidden it being done, not my view, but know some hold to that!

 

[Darrell C]

IF one is persuaded and convicted No alcohol is permitted to a Christian period, one should refrain from partaking, but one must not judge another whose faith allows for a cup of wine at the dinner table!

I think we can judge those who are drunken, according to Scripture.

If Paul teaches be not drunken but be filled with the Holy Ghost, then it stands to reason that drinking is quenching the Spirit, and will hinder being filled with the Holy Ghost.

Just how much alcohol is acceptable, and just how much quenching of the Spirit is acceptable?

If a brother thinks it's okay to drink but doesn't realize he is getting drunk, shall I judge?

You bet. For his benefit, not because I simply want to correct him.

We also look at the example we are to be to the world, and if they see we partake of the vine we condone their own use, and they will say the same thing: "Who are you to judge what amount I take and what qualifies as being drunken?" So better to give an example that if the state of our minds are going to be changed, we want that change to be due to the filling of the Spirit, to the mind of Christ, and not to a state of inebriation.

And the sad fact about alcohol use is that while there are those who can "have a glass of sine at dinner every night," there are more who cannot control their consumption and end up reaping the consequences Scripture wants us about.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Has God not spoken on a subject? Then follow your conscience and receive God's grace on the subject.

I would just add that when we have an issue that God seems to be silent on, we follow the basic principles set forth.

An example might be, nowhere in Scripture does God forbid shooting someone with a sniper rifle, but we can see that His general principle of prohibition against murder covers that. I think most issues will have guiding principles that will direct our paths. I don't really see where we, as Bible Students, fall prey to "little grey areas."


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Some though would say if not given forth in Bible directly Ok to do, God has forbidden it being done, not my view, but know some hold to that!

I think that is what the other poster was trying to say in the (other) OP, that such a view isn't correct. And you have to admit he presents his view as following what is implicitly taught, and that is one of the ways Scripture teaches us. We see this in the Doctrine of the Trinity. No explicit statement but taught all the same implicitly.


God bless.

 

[canadyjd]

From another thread:

(bold my emphasis)

Darrell,
I disagree!

For example - if I believed (and usually based on what a Baptist preacher told us in the past) that - for example - it is a sin to take a nap on Sunday Afternoon - that is a sin because we should be doing something for the Lord. (NOTE: this is NOT a "what if" Years ago, an evangelist came to our church and stated that exact doctrine! At the time I was a teen - so I took his advice and stop taking naps on Sundays!.

Well years later - I found that many good Christians, both "lay" and ministers did nap on Sunday afternoons!

So If I went by Darrell's statement - I would have been sinning by taking a Sunday nap!
But there is NOTHING scriptural against a Sunday Nap - thus I was NOT sinning! If anything - the Lords day should be a day of Rest!

So what are your thoughts on this subject?

The issue is violating your conscience concerning something you believe to be sin.

Issue: Taking a nap on Sundays

Possible reality #1: God considers it a sin. If you take the nap, it’s sinning, whether you think it’s sinning or not.

Possible reality #2: God doesn’t consider a Sunday nap to be sin, and but you do. If you take the nap it’s sinning against your conscience because you are doing something you believe to be a sin in God’s eyes.

It is a “sin of the high hand”. Intentional, willful disobedience to a perceived command of God.

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

I think we can judge those who are drunken, according to Scripture.

If Paul teaches be not drunken but be filled with the Holy Ghost, then it stands to reason that drinking is quenching the Spirit, and will hinder being filled with the Holy Ghost.

Just how much alcohol is acceptable, and just how much quenching of the Spirit is acceptable?

If a brother thinks it's okay to drink but doesn't realize he is getting drunk, shall I judge?

You bet. For his benefit, not because I simply want to correct him.

We also look at the example we are to be to the world, and if they see we partake of the vine we condone their own use, and they will say the same thing: "Who are you to judge what amount I take and what qualifies as being drunken?" So better to give an example that if the state of our minds are going to be changed, we want that change to be due to the filling of the Spirit, to the mind of Christ, and not to a state of inebriation.

And the sad fact about alcohol use is that while there are those who can "have a glass of sine at dinner every night," there are more who cannot control their consumption and end up reaping the consequences Scripture wants us about.


God bless.

Key is do not take enough alcohol to be under its influence, but God not against it period!

 

[JesusFan]

I think that is what the other poster was trying to say in the (other) OP, that such a view isn't correct. And you have to admit he presents his view as following what is implicitly taught, and that is one of the ways Scripture teaches us. We see this in the Doctrine of the Trinity. No explicit statement but taught all the same implicitly.


God bless.

I was referring to if the Bible does not prohibit any style of worship, neither should we be!

 

[JesusFan]

The issue is violating your conscience concerning something you believe to be sin.

Issue: Taking a nap on Sundays

Possible reality #1: God considers it a sin. If you take the nap, it’s sinning, whether you think it’s sinning or not.

Possible reality #2: God doesn’t consider a Sunday nap to be sin, and but you do. If you take the nap it’s sinning against your conscience because you are doing something you believe to be a sin in God’s eyes.

It is a “sin of the high hand”. Intentional, willful disobedience to a perceived command of God.

peace to you

We are free in christ to do whatever is the right thing to be doing, but at times for the bemefitr of those weaker brethren, are not to exercise our freedom in Christ fully!

 

[canadyjd]

I was referring to if the Bible does not prohibit any style of worship, neither should we be!

Concerning worship, God has given general commands as to how that should occur and we should be careful to approach our God with reverence and awe.

peace to you

 

[37818]

James 4:17, ". . . Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. . . ."
Romans 14:23, ". . . for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. . . ."
1 John 3:20, ". . . For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. . . ."


But we have Jeremiah 31:34 and 1 John 1:9.

 

[JesusFan]

Concerning worship, God has given general commands as to how that should occur and we should be careful to approach our God with reverence and awe.

peace to you

True, but the Lord looks at the heart, not the beat!

 

[canadyjd]

True, but the Lord looks at the heart, not the beat!

I wouldn’t presume to know what the Lord is looking at beyond what scripture reveals.

There is a story in the OT concerning the Ark of the covenant that hard been captured by the Philistines. It eventually made its way to a Jewish farmer who cared for it until David was made King, at which time he sent for it.

The Ark was loaded on a cart for the trip. At one point, the cart slipped in the mud and the Ark was about to topple into the mud. The two sons of the man reached out, grabbed the Ark and stabilized it on the cart. Their motives were pure. Their hearts were right. They simply wanted to keep the Ark from toppling into the mud.

God struck them dead.

There was only one way given by God to carry the Ark. Priests were to carry it, slipping poles through rings.

It matters to God how we approach Him in worship.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Sinning includes volitional sin, going against what you believe is the will of God. So it was not the nap that was sinning, but the choice to ignore what you thought was the will of God. Would God store up wrath against such a choice? I would not worry about it, as I expect all of us can point to where we chose to go against the actual will of God, and have failed to fully repent.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is the corollary to James' statement: if you know to something is good and do it not, it is sin

it is only sinful if it says so in the Bible! The Bible is the only Authority for all true believers in Jesus, and this is our Guide Book.

It is not what we "think" that matters, but what God says in His Infallible Word!

 

[AustinC]

it is only sinful if it says so in the Bible! The Bible is the only Authority for all true believers in Jesus, and this is our Guide Book.

It is not what we "think" that matters, but what God says in His Infallible Word!

The Bible never said eating meat that once had been offered to idols because it was cheap is explicitly wrong. Yet Paul took a section of his letter to the Romans to address the issue and tell them that their conscience would inform their faith as to what was right or wrong for them to do.
I recall reading Corrie Ten Boom's book, the Hiding Place, where she mentions that she felt no concern with telling the Nazis a lie about hiding Jews in their house, but her sister could only openly tell the truth when asked. Was Corrie in sin? The obvious answer would be, yes. Yet, her lie was saving lives. Her conscience was not seered by sin, but it recognized a greater good.

Sbw, do you understand grace?

 

[Darrell C]

Key is do not take enough alcohol to be under its influence, but God not against it period!

But He is against drunkenness, and that was the point. And the fact is that most use alcohol to change the state of their mind. I view God to be teaching us that we are to fill our minds with His will. When the mind-state is changed by alcohol, it is not God we are calling upon to lead us, but the opposite—we are yielding the self-control we are supposed to receive as the fruit of God's indwelling presence.

This too is an issue that one has to come to a conclusion about on their own, and God will judge men based on their conclusions. It is a Biblical pattern from the beginning to the end of Scripture that God will judge men based on their response to the revelation He has provided to them, and He will justly judge based on their understanding of it. This is the point that I was trying to make in regards to whether something is a sin for us if we believe it to be sin and we do it anyway. It is violating the conscience wilfully.

I will judge those who get drunk, and feel I have been directed by God to do so. Just as I am to judge those that reject Christ. We are to be able to discern good and evil by reason of use of the Word of God. And if we see someone doing something that brings them into peril and we say and do nothing, then we are guilty of shirking our duties as light in this world. Our primary concern is the eternal destiny of our neighbor (whoever we come into contact with) and we cannot fulfill that duty if we are not ready to openly proclaim their danger.


God bless.