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If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It
- Thread starter Bro. Kevin
- Start date
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Hi Kevin
Don't leave us so soon. We are just Christians airing our differences of opinion (defintely not something new
) It may seem like arguing; but really it is, for the most part, discussing. If anyone should attack you personally; the moderators are quick to give warning that it will not be tolerated. All in all we are a good bunch of people and it's great to hear young people taking a stand for God.
Don't leave us so soon. We are just Christians airing our differences of opinion (defintely not something new
Can one still purchase these - are any of these online to read ?</font>[/QUOTE]Amazon.com has Tyndale's NT for $12.60, or $25.00 for "original spelling", and the Geneva (1599 ed.) for $99, as does Christianbook.com. swrb.com has the English Hexapla (Wycliffe, Tyndale, Cramner, Geneva, Rheims, 1611 KJV, all NTs in parallel) for $60 Canadian (about $40 US). Greatsite.com has a gorgeous photo reprint of Wycliffe's 1384 NT for $175.
Note: all the above are reprints, of course.
On the computer: Page Publishing has PDF files of Tyndale's translation (with or without the 1611 KJV in parallel with differences highlighted), as well as Coverdale's. They will soon have the Great Bible, the Bishop's Bible and the Geneva.
The Tyndale can be read online at http://www.godstruthtous.com/gtvskjv_index.htm and http://www.thysayingistruth.com/pages/readtheword_readselect.asp. Wycliffe's NT is online at the Bible Gateway. The Geneva (1599 edition, not the 1560) is at gospelcom.net and several other places. The Rheims is at tldm.org and elsewhere.
That should be a good start, I'm sure there's plenty more, both in electronic and book form.
[ January 12, 2003, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
Hailey Marie
New Member
Bro.Kevin,
I think my nine year old daughter put it best when we were in the car listening to a contemporary music station. "mom I just cant picture God listening to this kind of music and bobbing his head up and down to the beat." I said ya know I cant either so we turned it off. I am only in my twenties and that music for the most part is a turn off to me. We Christians are to stand out from the world not blend in....Also ...I believe The Holy Bible KJV is the ispired word of God, if he wanted any of the words to be different they would be. Who are we to change Gods word? WOW I know I wouldnt have the nerve!
In Christ,
Hailey
I think my nine year old daughter put it best when we were in the car listening to a contemporary music station. "mom I just cant picture God listening to this kind of music and bobbing his head up and down to the beat." I said ya know I cant either so we turned it off. I am only in my twenties and that music for the most part is a turn off to me. We Christians are to stand out from the world not blend in....Also ...I believe The Holy Bible KJV is the ispired word of God, if he wanted any of the words to be different they would be. Who are we to change Gods word? WOW I know I wouldnt have the nerve!
In Christ,
Hailey
If Kevin is still here, I'd like to approach his opening comments from a little different point of view.
Kevin, languages change. People don't. We all are sinners and selfish and yucky. God never changes -- we know that.
But languages do. People's use of words changes. And, sometimes, our understanding of the idioms of an ancient culture, such as the Hebrews, improves. And while I agree with you that the idea of something being new does not mean it is necessarily better or improved, I do think that making sure that the language being used means what the authors originally intended is important. Some examples come to mind: if a teen writes, "That teacher is really gross," he probably means the teacher was disgusting in some way or another. But not long ago that very same sentence would have meant the teacher was extremely obese!
Or consider the fact that there are forms of the word 'love' in the Greek that we muddle up together as 'love' in English. In doing so, we miss some important points in Christ's questioning of Peter, "Do you love me?"
Interpretation/translation is hard. I think, for the most part, any of the translators of the Bible through time have endeavored to do the best they can with the earliest texts available to them in order to bring the meaning across.
Which brings up another point: words or meaning? Where idioms especially are concerned, that's an important question. Remember where Jesus says we are the salt of the earth? Why did he say that? If your response is that salt is a preservative and/or makes things taste good, you are missing the meaning of what he said. We all pretty much do. It is hard to trace, but if you look up the phrase "lose saltiness" you will find it is used four times in the NT, and only two times is it translated "lose saltiness." The other two times it is translated "become foolish" (in 1 Cor. 1 and in Romans 1). It was an idiom known to the people of the time -- salt was a picture of wisdom, whether worldly or godly. What are translators to do with it?
Two things are important to remember here:
1. God's meaning is so apparent in the basics in any translation (which does not purposely mess around with the original, as the New World does), that the message of sin and salvation and the Person of Christ are apparent in all. God does not let our nonsense get in the way of His love for men!
2. For English speakers, it is really interesting to do Bible studies with a couple of different Bibles and compare where they are different, and then go into a Concordance or two and find out why the translators may have chosen something different at different times. This takes time, but it is richly rewarding and something my husband and I really enjoy doing. In the process we have collected an Alexandrian LXX, a couple of King James, and several new versions, including the NIV. We also have several Concordances, two or three interlinears, and a number of commentaries. We have been fascinated by some of what we have found, but always the word of God comes through clearly regarding the absolute truths of the Bible.
So if a child is at ease with the King James, that is terrific! The parents do need to make sure the meaning of a number of archaic words are clear to him. And Shakespeare will certainly come more easily in later life! But most kids are not like that, and reading the NIV or NAS or such is a lot easier for them. The most important thing is that these kids are reading the Bible at all! Same with adults, actually...
About music: in every generation there are those who look down on anything that is new and those who embrace it. The waltz was once considered lewd. And while I personally, being a grandmother now, prefer many of the old magnificent hymns, when my children learned the modern praise choruses and then later when we were reading Bible and they read lines which had been used in those praise choruses, they were really excited: "I know that part!" Not a bad reaction for a youngster or teen to have regarding words in the Psalms or another part of the Bible, eh? And some of the new ones will make their way into the list of classics. For me, one of them is "As a Deer Panteth for the Water", and another is "His Name is Wonderful".
The seasons come and go. For me, age has come with a pretty good share of tolerance for the differences in people and preferences. And still, I know when I am talking to a brother or sister in Christ, regardless of the translation read or the hymns sung. That new heart and love for Christ shine through it all.
[ January 13, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]
Kevin, languages change. People don't. We all are sinners and selfish and yucky. God never changes -- we know that.
But languages do. People's use of words changes. And, sometimes, our understanding of the idioms of an ancient culture, such as the Hebrews, improves. And while I agree with you that the idea of something being new does not mean it is necessarily better or improved, I do think that making sure that the language being used means what the authors originally intended is important. Some examples come to mind: if a teen writes, "That teacher is really gross," he probably means the teacher was disgusting in some way or another. But not long ago that very same sentence would have meant the teacher was extremely obese!
Or consider the fact that there are forms of the word 'love' in the Greek that we muddle up together as 'love' in English. In doing so, we miss some important points in Christ's questioning of Peter, "Do you love me?"
Interpretation/translation is hard. I think, for the most part, any of the translators of the Bible through time have endeavored to do the best they can with the earliest texts available to them in order to bring the meaning across.
Which brings up another point: words or meaning? Where idioms especially are concerned, that's an important question. Remember where Jesus says we are the salt of the earth? Why did he say that? If your response is that salt is a preservative and/or makes things taste good, you are missing the meaning of what he said. We all pretty much do. It is hard to trace, but if you look up the phrase "lose saltiness" you will find it is used four times in the NT, and only two times is it translated "lose saltiness." The other two times it is translated "become foolish" (in 1 Cor. 1 and in Romans 1). It was an idiom known to the people of the time -- salt was a picture of wisdom, whether worldly or godly. What are translators to do with it?
Two things are important to remember here:
1. God's meaning is so apparent in the basics in any translation (which does not purposely mess around with the original, as the New World does), that the message of sin and salvation and the Person of Christ are apparent in all. God does not let our nonsense get in the way of His love for men!
2. For English speakers, it is really interesting to do Bible studies with a couple of different Bibles and compare where they are different, and then go into a Concordance or two and find out why the translators may have chosen something different at different times. This takes time, but it is richly rewarding and something my husband and I really enjoy doing. In the process we have collected an Alexandrian LXX, a couple of King James, and several new versions, including the NIV. We also have several Concordances, two or three interlinears, and a number of commentaries. We have been fascinated by some of what we have found, but always the word of God comes through clearly regarding the absolute truths of the Bible.
So if a child is at ease with the King James, that is terrific! The parents do need to make sure the meaning of a number of archaic words are clear to him. And Shakespeare will certainly come more easily in later life! But most kids are not like that, and reading the NIV or NAS or such is a lot easier for them. The most important thing is that these kids are reading the Bible at all! Same with adults, actually...
About music: in every generation there are those who look down on anything that is new and those who embrace it. The waltz was once considered lewd. And while I personally, being a grandmother now, prefer many of the old magnificent hymns, when my children learned the modern praise choruses and then later when we were reading Bible and they read lines which had been used in those praise choruses, they were really excited: "I know that part!" Not a bad reaction for a youngster or teen to have regarding words in the Psalms or another part of the Bible, eh? And some of the new ones will make their way into the list of classics. For me, one of them is "As a Deer Panteth for the Water", and another is "His Name is Wonderful".
The seasons come and go. For me, age has come with a pretty good share of tolerance for the differences in people and preferences. And still, I know when I am talking to a brother or sister in Christ, regardless of the translation read or the hymns sung. That new heart and love for Christ shine through it all.
[ January 13, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]