If it's not the Gospel, what is it??

[steaver]

Does anyone else here find it strange that Calvinist spend so much time and effort avoiding the honest conclusions of their own TULIP?

If TULIP is the Gospel, the Calvinist have no other choice but to believe those who do not believe it is the Gospel are following a false gospel and thus must be unsaved. But they squirm and struggle with accepting the reality of their own belief system.

And if it's not the Gospel, then what is it??

I don't think a Calvinist could explain what it is apart from believing it is the very Gospel of God, Divine Revelation, when God Himself via the Holy Spirit causes them to see that it is indeed the Gospel.

To do so would under-mind the very doctrine they believe in. They have no choice but to believe it is the very Gospel because the teaching of the doctrine itself declares that one cannot believe anything apart from God making them believe it.

The Calvinist is stuck is he not? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP is not the Gospel? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP does not come from any Divine revelation?

Again, if TULIP is not the Gospel, then what is it? According to a Calvinist that is, only a Calvinist can answer this question. Is it the Gospel, or is it something else, and if so what is it? And if it is the Gospel, how can one reject TULIP and still be saved?

 

[plain_n_simple]

"The Calvinist is stuck is he not?"
Yes, they are stuck. It is a weak faith and belief system that opens the door to Calvinism. They attempt to use logic and the intellect as a replacement to strengthen belief when faith has not built up. Their minds require a "deeper" understanding and Satan gladly gives it to them. Childlike faith is not possible when men turn to their own understanding and use intellect as a replacement. Faith is not good enough. The first red flag should of been warning enough when examining the life of John Calvin. His fruit tells all. Give them a few hundred years and the same would believe Jim Jones had it right. It takes a great deal of "bible study" to bury and twist the simple truth of the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ, "Whosoever believes". This is where we apply "they strain at a gnat (the simple Gospel), and swallow a camel (Calvinism).

 

[convicted1]

 

[OldRegular]

Does anyone else here find it strange that Calvinist spend so much time and effort avoiding the honest conclusions of their own TULIP?

If TULIP is the Gospel, the Calvinist have no other choice but to believe those who do not believe it is the Gospel are following a false gospel and thus must be unsaved. But they squirm and struggle with accepting the reality of their own belief system.

And if it's not the Gospel, then what is it??

I don't think a Calvinist could explain what it is apart from believing it is the very Gospel of God, Divine Revelation, when God Himself via the Holy Spirit causes them to see that it is indeed the Gospel.

To do so would under-mind the very doctrine they believe in. They have no choice but to believe it is the very Gospel because the teaching of the doctrine itself declares that one cannot believe anything apart from God making them believe it.

The Calvinist is stuck is he not? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP is not the Gospel? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP does not come from any Divine revelation?

Again, if TULIP is not the Gospel, then what is it? According to a Calvinist that is, only a Calvinist can answer this question. Is it the Gospel, or is it something else, and if so what is it? And if it is the Gospel, how can one reject TULIP and still be saved?

I think the OP is malarky but I will let the Calvinist defend TULIP if they believe it is the Gospel. For myself I believe the Gospel is what God through the Apostle Paul calls it:

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[savedbymercy]

"The Calvinist is stuck is he not?"
Yes, they are stuck. It is a weak faith and belief system that opens the door to Calvinism. They attempt to use logic and the intellect as a replacement to strengthen belief when faith has not built up. Their minds require a "deeper" understanding and Satan gladly gives it to them. Childlike faith is not possible when men turn to their own understanding and use intellect as a replacement. Faith is not good enough. The first red flag should of been warning enough when examining the life of John Calvin. His fruit tells all. Give them a few hundred years and the same would believe Jim Jones had it right. It takes a great deal of "bible study" to bury and twist the simple truth of the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ, "Whosoever believes". This is where we apply "they strain at a gnat (the simple Gospel), and swallow a camel (Calvinism).

The natural man cannot please God Rom 8:8 and Faith pleases God, so the natural man cannot believe in Christ with any Childlike Faith !

 

[BobRyan]

Does anyone else here find it strange that Calvinist spend so much time and effort avoiding the honest conclusions of their own TULIP?

If TULIP is the Gospel, the Calvinist have no other choice but to believe those who do not believe it is the Gospel are following a false gospel

If we counted up the number of times they have said that rejection of TULIP is rejection of the real Gospel - on this board ... it would be more than 1 or 5 or 10.

Calvinism's TULIP describes the process whereby the lost are elect, saved, atoned for...etc...

Those who think that subject matter "is not the gospel" need to rethink it.

 

[Yeshua1]

If we counted up the number of times they have said that rejection of TULIP is rejection of the real Gospel - on this board ... it would be more than 1 or 5 or 10.

Calvinism's TULIP describes the process whereby the lost are elect, saved, atoned for...etc...

Those who think that subject matter "is not the gospel" need to rethink it.

We hold to the truth of the fall of Adam, and all of us have been in him and spiritual blind and dead in our sins...

We hold that the TULIP is NOT the Gospel, but a way to explain just why God has chosen to save lost sinners in the fashion that he has!

 

[steaver]

We hold to the truth of the fall of Adam, and all of us have been in him and spiritual blind and dead in our sins...

And non-cals believe the same....

We hold that the TULIP is NOT the Gospel,

Ahhh, careful with the "We" word there, so far, you are the only one who has chimed in, and many Calvinist here have already declared TULIP is the Gospel.

but a way to explain just why God has chosen to save lost sinners in the fashion that he has

TULIP explains why God has chosen to save??? Tell us, why has God chosen to save you brother, in the fashion that He has?

 

[Iconoclast]

:laugh::laugh:///yes con1 much thought going on here....very deep:laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

And non-cals believe the same....



Ahhh, careful with the "We" word there, so far, you are the only one who has chimed in, and many Calvinist here have already declared TULIP is the Gospel.



TULIP explains why God has chosen to save??? Tell us, why has God chosen to save you brother, in the fashion that He has?

God made the choice to save me, period... As to why, only God knows that in the ultimate sense, but my chief end will be to praise and glorify Him!

 

[thatbrian]

Does anyone else here find it strange that Calvinist spend so much time and effort avoiding the honest conclusions of their own TULIP?

If TULIP is the Gospel, the Calvinist have no other choice but to believe those who do not believe it is the Gospel are following a false gospel and thus must be unsaved. But they squirm and struggle with accepting the reality of their own belief system.

And if it's not the Gospel, then what is it??

I don't think a Calvinist could explain what it is apart from believing it is the very Gospel of God, Divine Revelation, when God Himself via the Holy Spirit causes them to see that it is indeed the Gospel.

To do so would under-mind the very doctrine they believe in. They have no choice but to believe it is the very Gospel because the teaching of the doctrine itself declares that one cannot believe anything apart from God making them believe it.

The Calvinist is stuck is he not? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP is not the Gospel? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP does not come from any Divine revelation?

Again, if TULIP is not the Gospel, then what is it? According to a Calvinist that is, only a Calvinist can answer this question. Is it the Gospel, or is it something else, and if so what is it? And if it is the Gospel, how can one reject TULIP and still be saved?

Any and every Christian should understand that the Gospel is "good news". That news is summarized in 1 Corinthians 15 better than any place else I can think of. Christ died for our sins (Paul is addressing brothers). That's the heart of it: We find forgiveness of sins, freedom, reconciliation with the Father, and eternal life through Christ's atoning work on our behalf.

I'm a Calvinist, and I just gave you the same answer that every Calvinist I've ever spoken to regarding this has. Calvinism is not the gospel; however, it does explain HOW the gospel is worked out e.g. why men resist it; why some believe and some don't; what happens if we sin after being saved. . .

God never caused me to see that Calvinism as the gospel. God opened (removed the scales) my stubborn/self-sufficient heart and let me see that the truths contained within Calvin's thought are indeed an accurate summary of biblical truths. Regarding the subjects that they address, the "5 points" are an accurate understanding of scripture.

Also, God doe not "make" people believe. How many times will this straw man appear? He makes them new creations, then they can clearly see and believe. God reveals truth, He does not force belief. He does not have to. God reveals truth, and He also hides it! He blinds and He opens eyes. Ask Paul or the man in John 9.

 

[steaver]

God never caused me to see that Calvinism as the gospel. God opened (removed the scales) my stubborn/self-sufficient heart and let me see that the truths contained within Calvin's thought are indeed an accurate summary of biblical truths. Regarding the subjects that they address, the "5 points" are an accurate understanding of scripture.

Also, God doe not "make" people believe. How many times will this straw man appear? He makes them new creations, then they can clearly see and believe. God reveals truth, He does not force belief. He does not have to. God reveals truth, and He also hides it! He blinds and He opens eyes. Ask Paul or the man in John 9.

Ok, let me try to understand your belief here, or the experience you are describing...

God opened (removed the scales) my stubborn/self-sufficient heart and let me see that the truths contained within Calvin's thought are indeed an accurate summary of biblical truths. Regarding the subjects that they address, the "5 points" are an accurate understanding of scripture.

Was this your "born-again" experience? Or did you have a "stubborn/self-sufficient heart" while having been born-again, yet did not have a belief in TULIP yet?

Also, God doe not "make" people believe. How many times will this straw man appear? He makes them new creations, then they can clearly see and believe. God reveals truth, He does not force belief. He does not have to. God reveals truth, and He also hides it! He blinds and He opens eyes.

It seems you are connecting the "new creation" with seeing Calvinism as truth. This would then conclude that unless one believes in TULIP one has not been born of God (having been made a new creation)

 

[steaver]

The Calvinist is stuck is he not? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP is not the Gospel? Can a Calvinist declare TULIP does not come from any Divine revelation?

Here is a real controversy found within the Calvinist Camp.

Every Calvinist I ever spoke with claims Divine Revelation from God as why they believe what they believe. However, we have some Calvinist claiming TULIP is the Gospel (by Divine Revelation) and some believing TULIP is not the Gospel.

Why has God given Calvinist Divine Revelation concerning TULIP being truth, but has withheld Divine Revelation concerning TULIP being the Gospel to some Calvinist?

 

[savedbymercy]

Any and every Christian should understand that the Gospel is "good news". That news is summarized in 1 Corinthians 15 better than any place else I can think of. Christ died for our sins (Paul is addressing brothers). That's the heart of it: We find forgiveness of sins, freedom, reconciliation with the Father, and eternal life through Christ's atoning work on our behalf.

I'm a Calvinist, and I just gave you the same answer that every Calvinist I've ever spoken to regarding this has. Calvinism is not the gospel; however, it does explain HOW the gospel is worked out e.g. why men resist it; why some believe and some don't; what happens if we sin after being saved. . .

God never caused me to see that Calvinism as the gospel. God opened (removed the scales) my stubborn/self-sufficient heart and let me see that the truths contained within Calvin's thought are indeed an accurate summary of biblical truths. Regarding the subjects that they address, the "5 points" are an accurate understanding of scripture.

Also, God doe not "make" people believe. How many times will this straw man appear? He makes them new creations, then they can clearly see and believe. God reveals truth, He does not force belief. He does not have to. God reveals truth, and He also hides it! He blinds and He opens eyes. Ask Paul or the man in John 9.

Do you believe that limited atonement is part of the Gospel Paul preached in 1 Cor 15:1-4 ? Who does he mean by " our sins " here that Christ died for according to the scriptures ?

 

[thatbrian]

Do you believe that limited atonement is part of the Gospel Paul preached in 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?

Who does he mean by " our sins " here that Christ died for according to the scriptures ?

Yes.

The elect, of course. Paul is addressing Christians in this letter to the church in Galatia.

 

[savedbymercy]

Yes.

The elect, of course. Paul is addressing Christians in this letter to the church in Galatia.

Ok thanks, then Paul preached the limited atonement in His Gospel ! To deny limited atonement is to deny the Gospel , and that constitutes unbelief ! And it is the Church at Corinth !

 

[PreachTony]

Ok thanks, then Paul preached the limited atonement in His Gospel ! To deny limited atonement is to deny the Gospel , and that constitutes unbelief ! And it is the Church at Corinth !

You're really quick to label fellow Christians as deniers of the gospel if they don't agree with your theology.

So because I don't hold to Limited Atonement, I don't believe the gospel, eh? Thanks for the information, SBM.

 

[steaver]

You're really quick to label fellow Christians as deniers of the gospel if they don't agree with your theology.

So because I don't hold to Limited Atonement, I don't believe the gospel, eh? Thanks for the information, SBM.

To SBM's credit, he does understand the FULL conclusions which one must embrace if one is to embrace TULIP as truth. Everyone who believes in TULIP will declare they believe in TULIP because of Divine Enablement, which God opened their eyes to see it and believe it. When asked, why doesn't God do this for all Christians, John 10:26 is presented.

 

[steaver]

Yes.

The elect, of course. Paul is addressing Christians in this letter to the church in Galatia.

Brian, don't forget to answer the questions in post #12. Thank You!

 

[OldRegular]

Brian, don't forget to answer the questions in post #12. Thank You!

steaver, Don't forget to respond to my post #4! Thank you!