Very good reasoning there! Bud, sometimes I wish you were opposed to me on some of these issues so I could at least hone my skills in these debates. But, I guess there would be no logic in you being on the other side. :laugh:
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If knowledge is perfect then what is the need for experience?
- Thread starter humblethinker
- Start date
Very good reasoning there! Bud, sometimes I wish you were opposed to me on some of these issues so I could at least hone my skills in these debates. But, I guess there would be no logic in you being on the other side. :laugh:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Actually, it is a good practice to take on the other side of an issue in debate. We had to do that when I competed in HS and College. It is a very difficult skill to learn. People think they understand their opponents position until they actually have to debate in defense for it. It forces you to completely understand their perspective and walk in their shoes, so to speak.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
Aristotle
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I suspect that every heresy started with the same rationale you present above.
I have a book by Clark Pinnock, The Scripture principle a defense of the inerrancy of Scripture. Yet this man is a grand daddy of Open Theism which I believe to be heretical regardless of what anyone on this thread may believe.
Sadly many theologians seem to reach the point where they think their intellect is comparable to that of God. Bishop Pike is a prime example. looking for the historical Jesus he disappeared in the Judean desert. I doubt he was translated as Enoch was. My personal opinion is that the OP is inappropriate. I indicated such in an earlier post though perhaps not as explicitely. I do so now!
This last statement is just exactly what one gets when people go beyond Scripture.
It's amazing that some people believe they can out think God, even though He has said,
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Well said Amy G., particularly the Scripture from Isaiah!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
:thumbs: I couldn't agree more. In fact, this pretty much sums up the point I've been making all along. I believe those who conclude God must have created a deterministic world are guilty of 'believing they can out think God.'
I believe God created a world where HE is sovereign and doesn't need our thoughts at all.
Hip,Hip hurray! :godisgood:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
"Touche" Skandelon!:smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:
And it is pretty obvious that some folks can't think.
Amy, who doesn't believe that? He doesn't need anything...yet it was HIM saying "let us reason TOGEtHER"
Really? There is no further point that can be made? :laugh:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Oh, good, well then we are in agreement. Glad to hear that! :wavey:
Just because you know that getting a broken leg will hurt, will not stop you from getting a broken leg.
God knew that by creating us, we would eventually turn against Him because of the lies of Satan. So, what God did was have a plan/system already built-into creation itself for redemption. Else why were there prophecies of Jesus in the OT? God didn't stop us from getting a broken leg, He just warned us that it was going to hurt, but that there is time for healing afterwards. Not accepting this means we would never heal, and die in our sin.
Which begs the question, why did God create us in the first place, knowing we would be evil and that some of us would spiritually die? Why wouldn't an all-knowing God be able to make things perfect for all time? How would we know how awesome heaven is, if we first didn't live in this fallen world we now live in? If we never knew sacrifice and strife, how would we know if heaven was really where we wanted to be?
Big questions, but I think they can be answered.
"If" God is all-knowing, then He knows every possible alternate reality that could ever exist which would cascade from His very thoughts and actions. So, considering this, He likely created everything in a manner that would lead to certain un-avoidable events.
But, if free will exists (as I believe it to be so), then how is this possible? Simply put, our free will does not negate God's soverign will.
We can, along this "stretch" of time that we currently occupy, do what we want. Regardless of this, God will cause certain things to happen, even using those who go against Him, to complete His vision of time. In the process we either accept God and his version of reality; or die in our sin by accepting our own version of reality, while at the same time serving Satan in our rebellion towards God.
In the end, both/all realities serve God's purpose, and free will is not negated.
the ONLY time that he ever had to directly 'experiencing" historical events was incarnated as jesus the Christ!
God learned things from the human perspective, hands on knowledge, never could get any other way!