On another thread there was a post about loosing salvation.
So lets do a poll on this:
So lets do a poll on this:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If once saved - can again be lost? The Poll
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
1 John 2:19. 'They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that it might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.'
If people depart permanently from Christ, they were never His (Matt. 7:23). The Good Shepherd keeps His sheep (John 10:27-28).
If people depart permanently from Christ, they were never His (Matt. 7:23). The Good Shepherd keeps His sheep (John 10:27-28).
Jon, how would you explain the OT Scripture that tells us when a righteous man turns from his righteousness he will die in his sins and all the good he had done will not be remembered?
The OT saints were saved the same we are by faith being credeited for righteousness. Justification by grace through faith.
Ezeckiel 18:21-24
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ascetic X
Active Member
I do not think this Old Testament scripture applies to those who are in the New Testament period, those saved by grace through faith. We are not saved by works or keeping all the statutes of the Law. We are saved by trusting in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for our sins. Old Testament people did not have this opportunity.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began…
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
The Law of Moses never saved anyone, it was the curse that condemned us.
Salvation has been by faith since the Garden.
Ascetic X
Active Member
You are correct.
Paul points us to Abraham, who was saved by faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness” (Romans 4:3).
Again, Paul quotes the Old Testament to prove his point—Genesis 15:6, this time. Abraham could not have been saved by keeping the Law, because he lived over 400 years before the Law was given.
So Ezekiel 18:21-24 must not refer to salvation, but to living here on earth. Obey the statutes and live, disobey and die.
Last edited:
The Law condemned us by no one being able to keep it. It showed man his weakness with sin and pointed to the Sacrifice in the Sacrificial System that represented Christ. Faith in the coming Messiah was their salvation.
We are saved the same way looking back at that sacrifice at Calvary.
Ascetic X
Active Member
Thus, “in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live” cannot be talking about eternal salvation, since that is based on faith, not works?
When God said "if a man keeps my commandments" He was not speaking of literally keeping the written Law, that was impossible. Although they were expected to try, and true faith would try.
He was speaking of the commandment in the Sacrificial System to believe in sacrifice that covered thiers sins.
Lev. 17:11
“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”
Ascetic X
Active Member
Do you have a scripture verse that confirms this claim? I cannot recall any verse that commands them to believe in the sacrifice.
“He was speaking of the commandment in the Sacrificial System to believe in sacrifice that covered their sins.”
But your Ezekiel verse states: …keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right…
We have the same problem today the Israelites had around 4000 years ago keeping the 10 commandments.
We have all failed and were condemned, but we try not to steal, commit adultery, etc. just as they did.
Ascetic X
Active Member
But again “believe in the sacrificial system” is not in the 10 commandments or any other list of statutes that I know of.
No, you will not find those words of mine in Scripture. What you will find is that the Gospel was preached to the Israelites in the wilderness.
Heb. 4:12
"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."
The Scripture does not give us the details on this as in so many other cases. The Gospel was in the Blood of the sacrifice and when Moses told the Hebrews a prophet would come as he was, in Him you will believe. Which of course was Christ.
This coming Messiah was associated with the sacrifice that covered their sins.
easternstar
Active Member
So, Old Testament people could choose, but we cannot?
The Israelites under the Law were not in the dark, they knew exactly what the sacrifice meant.
They were just as righteous then as we are now in this life. Salvation was no different, but we have the added luxury of being born-again that gives us the indwelling Holy Spirit they did not have. But we read many times in Scripture when the OT saints were indwelled with the Holy Spirit for a particular task, but then would depart.
So no, if they could lose it so can we.
Easterner I guess you think I'm crazy and you could be right! I read your post as "lose" and you said "choose."
So my reply had nothing to do with your question.
Could you elaborate a little more on them choosing, I could go different ways with that but I'd rather you clarify that for me.