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If once saved - can again be lost? The Poll
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
I finally read it carefully and got it but I keep cracking up when I glance at it and read it wrong! Bad self, read better!!
Piper 2
Active Member
It is talking about historical Israel and their place as God's chosen people. One day in the future they will be restored (grafted back in) but for now they are temporarily cut off. We know that not every one of the people of Israel were saved. But they were called God's chosen nation.
We must remain in Jesus Love. Many were living branches of the Vine but were cut off.
After being born again, serious sin cuts off the grace in a soul.
This is why Jesus gave the power to His apostolic shepherds to forgive sin. The Church is loaded with sinful sheep down the ages.
To be bandaged by Jesus shepherds and be fed the Eucharist unto eternal life.
To be fit to receive the Eucharist, the “ medicine of immortality “ as Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of John called it.
Peter was charged with feeding and tending Christs flock.
Tending by confession, and feeding the Word and the Incarnate Word in the Eucharist.
Under Peter is One Flock and One Shepherd under Christ.
The whole purpose of the Sacrifice is so we can eat of the Sacrifice, to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ to receive Eternal Life:
So that people are not lost.
The Eucharist is the Vine, it is Jesus Himself.
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him’
This is how the branch abides in the Vine and the Vine abides in the branches.
In the Eucharist we abide in the Vine directly and Vine abides in us directly.
The life of His flesh and blood is the life of our flesh and blood into Eternity.
Only Jesus Himself is Life.
So that people are not lost.
The Eucharist is the Vine, it is Jesus Himself.
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him’
This is how the branch abides in the Vine and the Vine abides in the branches.
In the Eucharist we abide in the Vine directly and Vine abides in us directly.
The life of His flesh and blood is the life of our flesh and blood into Eternity.
Only Jesus Himself is Life.
The Eucharist is a very good thing, as many things are, but when we take those good things and make them a requirement for salvation, thereby adding it to our faith in Christ, we have made a grave error!
That is adding a Law, the works of man as necessary to be saved. We Protestants can't go along with that, Cathode.
It is adding works to the necessity of salvation and will be rejected, "if it be of Grace it is no more of works."
"We are saved by Grace through faith, not of works."
Can you bring yourself to trust Jesus words?
“Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no Life in you”
Sounds kinda important.
“ My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink “
People deny Jesus saying “ No, its not real food and real drink, it symbolic.”
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day”
Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Jesus because Jesus said it.
Baptists believe in the Real Absence.
If the Eucharist isn’t Jesus then it isn’t communion with Christ.
The whole point is communion with Jesus.
We've discussed all of this before. Paul told us how to be saved and how to live this Christian life, that is what Christ gave him to do along with many other things. Why didn't he tell us about that? The reason is obvious, it's symbolic.
I can't discus this with someone bound and determined to work their way to heaven, which by the way is impossible.
Peter warned people about Paul’s writings, they are hard to understand and people twist them to their own destruction.
No Protestant has ever heeded Peter’s warning and they have never stopped to consider that the “ ignorant and unstable “ could possibly refer to them.
You have misunderstood Paul and James for that matter.
It’s a false accusation, you aren’t listening.
Ignatius disciple of John was at war with the Docetist gnostics who refused to eat the Eucharist because they denied the physical incarnation of Christ. Therefore they denied that Eucharist could be the flesh and blood of Christ.
Denial of the flesh and blood Eucharist is a denial that Christ came in the flesh.
Besides, Jesus said that his flesh is real food and blood is real drink.
Symbolic is the words you added to scripture.
We do have to remain in His love, I agree. My point is one cannot be saved from what comes and end up perishing by what us to come.
I am not a member of a flock under Peter (I am a member of a flock under Jesus), so I cannot speak to those people other than to say they missed the boat, so to speak.
Jesus left His flock to Peter. So the best sign you are in Christs flock, is Peter will be in charge of it.
And he says to him again after the resurrection, ‘Feed my sheep.’ It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. And although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, thus establishing by his own authority the source and hallmark of the (Church’s) oneness. No doubt the others were all that Peter was, but a primacy is given to Peter, and it is (thus) made clear that there is but one flock which is to be fed by all the apostles in common accord. If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church? This unity firmly should we hold and maintain, especially we bishops, presiding in the Church, in order that we may approve the episcopate itself to be the one and undivided.” Cyprian, The Unity of the Church, 4-5 (A.D. 251-256).
Yes, I will admit I'm ignorant on many things and unstable at times, part of being a country boy.
I'm neither on this subject! Oil and water is what we are, Cathode.
Well Jesus says His flesh is real food and blood is real drink, and you say it isn’t, only symbolic.
So not scriptural.
Jesus tells people to eat His flesh and drink His blood and they refuse to.
Jesus in Scripture is inviting you to His banquet to receive His Life in you to the resurrection of your body to everlasting Life.
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day “
“ so he who eats me, will live because of me “
Christ our paschal lamb is sacrificed so that by eating Him, we receive Eternal Life.
The Eucharist is the medicine of immortality. Only Jesus is Life, He is the only means to Eternity.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Peter is dead.
Peter didn’t send the Comforter.
Jesus is the resurrection and the life.
1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Your focus is misplaced.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Jesus said His words were spiritual and you say they are literal.
So your view is not scriptural.
Jesus words were spiritual and literal.
It requires Faith to believe Jesus flesh is real food and blood is real drink.
No Cathode, that is Catholicism speaking, the words of men.
Christ didn't say His flesh was real food, He said "take, eat, this is my body, while He was sitting at the table with them which was obviously not His literal body, or anything of the sort. The broken bread was a symbol of what He was about to do at Calvary.
Ascetic X
Active Member
We must determine which of the sayings of Jesus are literal and which are figures of speech.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
COMMENT Jesus is not literal vegetation, nor are we literal branches, nor do we bring forth literal fruit like literal grapes.
Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
COMMENT I have never known of anyone literally plucking out their eye.
Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
COMMENT I have never known of anyone, aside from Arthur Bliss, carrying a literal wooden cross.
John 10:7 So He said to them again, “Truly, truly, I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.“
COMMENT Jesus is not a literal gate, we are not literal sheep.
In other words, when you eat the bread and drink the cup at the Lord's Supper you acknowledging your faith in what He did at Calvary.
Paul said beware if you eat this bread and drink this cup unworthily, he eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
Do you know what that means, Cathode?
Jesus said “this IS my body.”
But you add your own words not in scripture.
“which was obviously not His literal body, or anything of the sort.”
. “The broken bread was a symbol of what He was about to do at Calvary”
This is not what the scripture says, you are adding human teachings of men.