If one believes that baptisim is essential for salvation, is he damned

[billwald]

>Show me a passage from the Book of Acts or any conversion after the Day of Penecost who waited months, and years to be baptized.

Emperor Constantine.

From http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac60


"Falling ill in AD 337, Constantine is at last baptized - only a few days before his death. It has often been asked why he left this necessary act of Christian commitment so late. The answer is probably so as not to waste the magic of baptism, which washes away sins. "


Immaterial if his theory of baptism was incorrect!

 

[JSM17]

I do not see long periods of time elapsing between belief and baptism, as for Phillip and the eunich, there is no indication that weeks, months or years went by.

As for Constantine, this is not a biblical account of conversion, I would hardly use it for an indication of anything.

It amazes me that people claim allegance to Christ yet are not aware of the command to be baptized allowing weeks, months, and years to go by as if it was some secondary issue as it is insinuated by so many.

Acts 16:15

15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." So she persuaded us.
NKJV

To obey the gospel includes being baptized and is being faithful to the Lord, again I do not see weeks, months, and years going by.

 

[DHK]

I do not see long periods of time elapsing between belief and baptism, as for Phillip and the eunich, there is no indication that weeks, months or years went by.

It didn't have to be weeks, etc.
Time did go by, didn't it?
And if time did go by who is going to draw the line how much time can to by before the COC declares someone is not saved.

Many of the COC have said that I was not saved when I professed salvation, and some of them still say that I am not saved to this day. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of them.
I trusted Christ as my Saviour when I was 20. But I was not baptized until 2 years after that. So answer me:

1. Was I saved when I put my faith and trust in the finished work of Christ?
2. Was I saved during the intervening years before I got baptized?
3. Was I saved when I got baptized.
4. Am I saved now?

 

[Winman]

If baptism is necessary for salvation, then the thief (malefactor) who died on the cross with Jesus was lost.

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

We know this man was saved by the Lord's own words and he was never baptized.

 

[Enow]

If baptism is necessary for salvation, then the thief (malefactor) who died on the cross with Jesus was lost.

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

We know this man was saved by the Lord's own words and he was never baptized.

I am not testifying that baptism is necessary for salvation, but to share an edification by His grace towards your inference.

Jesus had said that unless one was born again, they shall not see the Kingdom of God. Jesus had not risen yet nor has He ascended to the right hand of the Father to be Our Mediator, and so the promise of the Spirit has not been given to the thief yet for him to be saved in that way.

The thief was saved, but by heeding Jesus' words, and remembering the parable of Lazarus, the begger, Paradise is not the Kingdom of God for Jesus specified that unless one was born again, they cannot see the Kingdom of God.

John 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Ephesians 4: 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Matthew 27: 50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

John 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1 Corinthians 15:20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Anyway, your inference for application to the issue of water baptism wasn't quite fully expounded upon since none of the Old Testament saints were water baptised either, but yet they were given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ as they had received life anyway.

 

[JSM17]

Many of the COC have said that I was not saved when I professed salvation, and some of them still say that I am not saved to this day. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of them.
I trusted Christ as my Saviour when I was 20. But I was not baptized until 2 years after that. So answer me:

1. Was I saved when I put my faith and trust in the finished work of Christ?
2. Was I saved during the intervening years before I got baptized?
3. Was I saved when I got baptized.
4. Am I saved now?

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

If baptism is necessary for salvation, then the thief (malefactor) who died on the cross with Jesus was lost.

Saying that the thief needed to be baptized is like saying that Abraham needed to be baptized but we wouldn't go there because that would be rediculous. As I can recall the thief was talking to Christ so Christ had not died. Christ could offer what was His to anyone the way He saw fit. After His death His convenant was in place by the blood.

 

[Enow]

Matt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Jesus told him to sell everything he had and follow him, but the rich man could not b/c he had many possissions. It wasn't that the Rich man did not believe in Jesus, (he did or he would not of asked him how) that kept him from salvation but it was his lack of obedience to Christ!

By His grace, if I may expound on DHK's reply further on your reference:

Matthew 19: 16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. 27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Has every believer sold all that they had, given to the poor, and followed Jesus to inherit eternal life?

Did the Lord show you what He had meant in verse 26 above? By His grace, if I may expound on Jesus' own words with another reference of His:

Matthew 5: 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

That is what He had meant in that what is impossible with man... is possible with God. You cannot do it. God can.

Romans 10: 1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So the lack of obedience is not believing the Gospel.

By faith we have eternal life in Jesus Christ and by faith we live as His as He enables us to live the christian life. The emphasis isn't on the religious man.

John 1: 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 6:28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Galatians 2: 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Philippians 1: 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ....9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Colossians 1: 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jesus didn't say "Do the best you can in following Me" and then took off for He is with us always. That is the difference between a religion and a relationship as all those that place their trust in the Lord shall live by faith.

 

[Darron Steele]

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

Why?

Saying that the thief needed to be baptized is like saying that Abraham needed to be baptized but we wouldn't go there because that would be rediculous. As I can recall the thief was talking to Christ so Christ had not died. Christ could offer what was His to anyone the way He saw fit. After His death His convenant was in place by the blood.

According to John 19, both men were still alive when Jesus Christ died, meaning shed His lifeblood.

Therefore, the New Covenant was in effect when the men died. Jesus Christ's newest follower died under the New Covenant and was saved under the New Covenant.

 

[Enow]

Originally Posted by Johnv
Water baptism is a command, but is not a prerequisite for salvation. The is evidenced by the numerous biblical accounts of people accepting Christ without the benefit of, or prior to, water baptism.

Give us those accounts!

One account of people accepting Christ in being saved prior to water baptism:

Acts 10: 34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all 37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

For the sake of the believing Jews that had the emphasis of water baptism before receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

And so the Gentiles received water baptism "afterwards" even though they had already received the Holy Ghost as their seal of adoption that they are saved.

The shift from the emphasis on water baptism on the Jews to the Gentiles was that Gentiles were not representative of God through the Old Covenant that they had a need to cease to be witnesses of God under the law for they were sinners in need of the Saviour. In order for the Jews to be witnesses of Jesus Christ in the New Covenant, water baptism was necessary to declare their faith in Him.

Was the emphasis maintained that the Gentile believers were to receive water baptism afterwards in the event that it was done in Acts 2 so as to not be a stumbling block for the believing Jews?

1 Corinthians 12:12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So in other words: Jesus saves; water baptism has nothing to do with it. Jesus set the precedent Himself.

John 3:14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So in answer of your OP, a believer is not condemned for thinking he needs water baptism in order to be saved, but as we read His Words in the knowledge of Him so that our love may abound yet more and more, may God edify us to know the glory of God through Jesus Christ in that He saves all those that believe in His Son thus avoiding any that would share in that glory in themselves of being the water baptizers of converts "in saving them".

 

[Stanedglass]

Ok, here's a new aproach! Is Grace without faith dead?

 

[DHK]

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

So others know what the "no's" are referring to:
No, I was not saved when I put my faith in trust in the finished work of Christ because I wasn't baptized until two years later.

No, I wasn't saved during those intervening years.

No, I wasn't saved even when I was saved.

No, I am not even saved right not as I post this post.
_______________________________________________

The above is JSM17 position. From it we may assume two things:
1. That he, as a COC member believes no baptism is valid except that of the COC. Am I correct?
2. That all on this board who are Baptists: moderators, administrators, and even the owner, are not saved. Am I correct.

Now to look again at Scripture:
We know that the Ethiopian eunuch was not baptized right away. It could have been, and most probably was hours after he trusted Christ as his Saviour before he was baptized. Look at the scenario. Philip jumps upon the chariot, and from the same passage that he is reading "preaches unto him Jesus." Shortly after he receives Christ as Saviour. They continue traveling through the desert. It is a long way, a long journey. Philip continues to disciple him. Then finally they come to a body of water. The eunuch, after having been taught by Philip, exclaims: Here is water; what is stopping me from being baptized.
Philip reassures him: There is nothing stopping you. As long as you believe with all your heart you may be baptized.
Once again the eunuch confesses to Philip that he believes, and then they are baptized. It is likely that hours have passed by now.

So how much time must pass before JSM17 declares a baptism invalid? or declares salvation not salvation because the baptism too far away from the confession in Christ?
two hours?
four hours?
one day?
three days?
one week?
two weeks?
one month?
two months?
one year?
two years?

Where does JSM17 arbitrarily draw his line that the Bible never draws before he plays the part of God and declares someone not saved. I am not saved (according to JSM17) because I allowed two years to elapse between my confession in Christ as Lord of my life and my baptism. It is the declaration of JSM17, acting on the behalf of God, that I am not saved. How many other papal proclamations will he make?

 

[Enow]

Ok, here's a new aproach! Is Grace without faith dead?

Grace without faith is called labouring in unbelief.

Romans 4: 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 11: 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Hebrews 4: 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world..... 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatians 5:3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So if anyone totes a means to be justified by other than by faith in Jesus Christ, they have fallen from grace. They are sealed as His since they were bought with a price for believing in Him, but void of faith, they will not be ready when the Bridegroom appears for the Bride...unless they repent.

Romans 4:14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

It does explain why one group coming out of the great tribulation needed robes given to them as if they were naked of their faith in Him while another group needed to nhave their robes washed clean by the Blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 6: 9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7: 13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Yep. Jesus will finish His work even in those left behind for God keeps His promises as it will take a divine intervention on those left behind to get past the loss of their first inheritance. God will wipe the tears from their eyes from feeling the effects of their loss in their weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So are we witnesses of Jesus Christ or of some other means in His name? After all, Jesus Christ is the Gospel; the Good News to man.

 

[Stanedglass]

So, can Grace save us if we do not have faith?

 

[Stanedglass]

So if anyone totes a means to be justified by other than by faith in Jesus Christ, they have fallen from grace. They are sealed as His since they were bought with a price for believing in Him, but void of faith, they will not be ready when the Bridegroom appears for the Bride...unless they repent.

This is where I get a little confused about what you are saying!

I have asked the question several times "Is Repentance considered a work? I can't understand how most view Baptism a work and not Repentance! Man does both. So why is Repentance not considered a work?

 

[DHK]

This is where I get a little confused about what you are saying!

I have asked the question several times "Is Repentance considered a work? I can't understand how most view Baptism a work and not Repentance! Man does both. So why is Repentance not considered a work?

How do you define repentance?

 

[Enow]

So, can Grace save us if we do not have faith?

Jesus has saved you. He has saved every believer. That is His glory.

Whethor or not you are abiding in Him to be ready when He appears by keeping that faith is the question.

If by grace you have been saved.. past tense...then you are His.

If you moved away from the hope in Christ Jesus and fallen from grace:

God will reprove every disobedient child He receives so let us run the race with His help by faith in the Son of God to help us live as His.

Hebrews 12: 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

The chastening of being left behind and going through the great tribulation is not going to be a walk in a park.

Hebrews 12:28Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29For our God is a consuming fire.

If any part of scriptures one was to apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 towards.. it is to the above reference of Hebrews 12th chapter.

So if our hope is in Christ Jesus, when He appear, will not our hope be realized?

Hebrews 10:35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.:jesus:

 

[JSM17]

The above is JSM17 position. From it we may assume two things:
1. That he, as a COC member believes no baptism is valid except that of the COC. Am I correct?
2. That all on this board who are Baptists: moderators, administrators, and even the owner, are not saved. Am I correct.

1. No that is not correct.
2. Baptist doctrine is not biblical, faith alone does not save.

 

[Enow]

Originally Posted by Enow
So if anyone totes a means to be justified by other than by faith in Jesus Christ, they have fallen from grace. They are sealed as His since they were bought with a price for believing in Him, but void of faith, they will not be ready when the Bridegroom appears for the Bride...unless they repent.

This is where I get a little confused about what you are saying!

I have asked the question several times "Is Repentance considered a work? I can't understand how most view Baptism a work and not Repentance! Man does both. So why is Repentance not considered a work?

Repent from not believing in Him. So by believing we are saved, we have ceased from our works in making ourselves His for we are His. He did it. That is the righteousness of faith. That is the glory of God in Christ Jesus.

Read what He has done in the past tense for you.

Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Read that stipulation in verse 23 of not recognizing what God has done through Jesus Christ for you as that would be considered moving away from the hope of the gospel. That would be considered not being grounded nor settled in the faith when you move away from the hope of the Gospel.

So it is repenting from not believing in the hope of the Gospel.:jesus:

 

[Stanedglass]

How do you define repentance?

Turning away from your sins!

But to get a little more formal here is the definition:

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

 

[DHK]

1. No that is not correct.

If it isn't correct, then whose other baptism do you accept? You just admitted in your statement below that Baptist doctrine is not biblical, and it cannot save. So, other than COC which baptism do you accept?

2. Baptist doctrine is not biblical, faith alone does not save.

That is quite a statement to make seeing that it has been proven over and over to you that faith alone does save. This truth permeates the Bible: OT and NT. If there is one truth in Scripture that is so clearly taught that it cannot be missed it is this one: that man is saved by faith alone; and that has been clearly shown to you, in spite of your denial.

Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. (Romans 5:1)