Johnv, I have to agree with Bible-boy. There is no better time to proclaim the Gospel then at a funeral where people are faced with the reality of death. At LCMS churches, Pastors use the person's life as a lead into proclaiming the Gospel. In a good sermon you will more about Christ's victory over death then you will about the person who died.
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If the Roman Catholic Church is so bad...
- Thread starter jay29
- Start date
John - Agree with you. There may be no better time than to share the Gospel, but you're right -- it does not make the pastor or church apostate not to do so.
By the way, I've been to Catholic funerals where the Gospel was proclaimed. At one service, they actually had an invitation. Sorry that this doesn't "fit" with the normal Catholic bashing on this post.
Another situation may be weddings. Some will say that you should always present the Gospel at all occasions - even weddings. However, I have personally seen this handled so poorly by a pastor that one half or more of the attendees went away very offended (and rightly so).
By the way, I've been to Catholic funerals where the Gospel was proclaimed. At one service, they actually had an invitation. Sorry that this doesn't "fit" with the normal Catholic bashing on this post.
Another situation may be weddings. Some will say that you should always present the Gospel at all occasions - even weddings. However, I have personally seen this handled so poorly by a pastor that one half or more of the attendees went away very offended (and rightly so).
Charles Meadows
New Member
The original text carries with it the meaning that our disciple making (sharing the gospel) is to be an everyday way of life for us.
This may be a bit of a stretch on the text. The emphasis of the command is to disciple the world. The context gives us this. To say that the aorist participle (as opposed to an infinitive) here specifically means that witnessing is a daily activity is reading a bit into it.
Although I think your take on this whole issue is right. I will suggest it comes from the context of Jesus statement and not from the syntax level!
This may be a bit of a stretch on the text. The emphasis of the command is to disciple the world. The context gives us this. To say that the aorist participle (as opposed to an infinitive) here specifically means that witnessing is a daily activity is reading a bit into it.
Although I think your take on this whole issue is right. I will suggest it comes from the context of Jesus statement and not from the syntax level!
Okay, I can respect that, Chemnitz. But the whole premise of the thread was falsehoods of the Catholic Church. This example of the funeral, in and of itself, doesn't fit the criteria as being a doctinal falsehood or error. Hence, I referred to it as an inappropriate critique.
As FoS noted, I, too, have been to my share of Catholic funerals, and have heard the Gospel to one extent or another in several of them. I cannot honestly say that I have heard it less at a Catholic funeral than any other Christian denomination or fellowship funeral I've been to. So the implication that Catholic funerals omit the Gospel as a matter of course is patently false.
As FoS noted, I, too, have been to my share of Catholic funerals, and have heard the Gospel to one extent or another in several of them. I cannot honestly say that I have heard it less at a Catholic funeral than any other Christian denomination or fellowship funeral I've been to. So the implication that Catholic funerals omit the Gospel as a matter of course is patently false.
Charles Meadows
New Member
It's been my experience with catholic funerals that there are many lost people there.
I think the idea of giving the gospel there is a good one - not because every catholic needs to hear a protestant invitation but because a lot of the people in attendance at a funeral do not regularly go to church.
I think the idea of giving the gospel there is a good one - not because every catholic needs to hear a protestant invitation but because a lot of the people in attendance at a funeral do not regularly go to church.
It's been my experience with almost all funerals that there are many lost people there.
Hey John,
If that is the extent of your critique of my critique then you clearly missed the point I was making about how the priest assured the congregation that the boy was in heaven because he had been baptized in Christ as a baby (the heresy of baptismal regeneration). Plus, the fact that the priest had never meet the family (or the boy) and did not know that the boy professed (to his schoolmates) to be an atheist.
I only mentioned the failure to preach the gospel as an aside because I was still angry and hurting for the sake of the lost that were at that funeral. We (the born again Christians) have been witnessing and counseling to individuals. However, the chance to preach the gospel to a church packed with hurting lost people was missed.
I never made that claim or implication.
[ February 02, 2006, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
However, the aorist is a continuing action. Thus, the idea of "As you are going make disciples..."Charles Meadows
New Member
I'll let you take that debate up with David Allen Black the Greek scholar and professor who taught me. However, the aorist is a continuing action. Thus, the idea of "As you are going make disciples..."
My point is that the text permits that but does not implicitly suggest it. Many a great Greek scholar has been guilty of adding little theological nuances here and there. I think modern linguistics have taught us to be minimalistic in the approach to the syntx and let the text and its context speak for itself.
My point is that the text permits that but does not implicitly suggest it. Many a great Greek scholar has been guilty of adding little theological nuances here and there. I think modern linguistics have taught us to be minimalistic in the approach to the syntx and let the text and its context speak for itself.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I spoke to an RC friend of mine that mentioned the fact that he did pray to his dead dead loved one at one time -- for a number of years after the funeral and that praying to the dead (those that Paul calls the "DEAD in Christ" in 1Thess 4 presumably) is a great comfort to our RC brethren.
Does anyone know how common that is - praying to dead ancestors?
In Christ,
Bob
elijah_lives
New Member
If the RCC is so bad...
Regardless of the argument(s) over the validity of RC doctrine, the organization (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) preserved learning, the faith, and civilization through the Middle Ages. We owe them a debt of gratitude for that alone.
Regardless of the argument(s) over the validity of RC doctrine, the organization (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) preserved learning, the faith, and civilization through the Middle Ages. We owe them a debt of gratitude for that alone.
We owe nothing to RCC, the Mother of Harlots.
True churches have existed all the time despite the tortures and killing spree by the Whory Roman Catholic.
These are some of the true churches condemned as Heretics by Whory and Brutal Roman Catholics:
Montanists, Donatusists, Paulicans, Albigenes, Cathari, Waldenese, Nestorian, Bogomil, Bohemian Brethren, West Deutsche Brethren, Anabaptists, Heugnots, Moravian Brethren, most of whom were condemned as heretics by Roman Catholic. Often RC tortured and killed them by accusing them of what they actually never claimed or never believed. The records of what those people actually believed are very little today.
I have the following belief:The most of the true believers reject the followings:
- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues
- calling Mary Mother of God, meaning God the Son of Mary.
- Immaculate Conception
- Compulsory Celibacy
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility
- Inquisition
- Whory Tradition of so-called holy tradition
- Infant Baptism
- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church
- Excuse on Crusade
- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Clergy system
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins
- Confession to priests
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests)
- Extreme unction
- Assumption of Mary
- Prayer to the dead
- Prayer to Mary
- calling Mary the Mother of the church
- all the signs of pagan origin such as ankh cross, mark of IHS, threefold hats for the pope, etc.
If I had lived the DArk Age under Whory Roman Catholic, could my belief be correctly recorded by RC's and could anyone read what I believed at that time? RC catholic tortured not only the human bodies but also the thoughts and beliefs so that they may distort what the true believers said and believed.
elijah_lives
The pagan religions formed a single catholic faith at rome ---
http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/papers/vol1/500215-The_Influence_of_the_Mystery_Religions_on_Christianity.htm
The true Church of Jesus Christ is not tainted with such sin.
http://www.borntowin.net/sofaith.aspx
They also incorporated all the pagan religions under one banner.
The pagan religions formed a single catholic faith at rome ---
http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/papers/vol1/500215-The_Influence_of_the_Mystery_Religions_on_Christianity.htm
The true Church of Jesus Christ is not tainted with such sin.
http://www.borntowin.net/sofaith.aspx
elijah_lives
New Member
Well, I did say "regardless of the argument(s) over the validity of RC doctrine." I'm not arguing the doctrine, but I am complimenting them for holding scholastic learning and aspects of our faith through an age where illiteracy was the rule (even in the priesthood). Protestantism emerged from within the church; Luther didn't pop out of nowhere. The advancement of civilization has come from the accumulation of knowledge, much of which was lost during the Middle age, and rediscovered by the RCC. Without that knowledge, where would we be today?