If the Roman Catholic Church is so bad...

[pinoybaptist]

Also, jay29, stop smarting and hurting on behalf of Roman Catholicism.
Those who attack other faiths do so because of some reasons. I venture to suggest some:

One- as in the case of one poster here, they are ex-Catholics who felt let down. I can understand where they're coming from, because I felt the same way, being an ex-Catholic, and I felt that the Roman Catholic church is to be blamed for the fact that my father, mother, brothers, uncles, aunts, cousins, and friends, all good Catholics, are all in hell because like me they were not taught the truth;

two - which brings us to another thing. the idea that, somehow, the church, any 'Christian' church, has anything to do with salvation, that it is tasked with getting souls 'saved', and no church, of any age and color and denomination, is charged with the task of getting souls saved.

That is a man-made doctrine. JESUS CHRIST alone had that mandate from the Father, and He did it well ! He did it well, or His blood was shed for naught !

All these theologies will remain on this earth, there is not one redeemed who will bring his theology into heaven, it will stay on this earth, and go to the grave with him.

 

[Bible-boy]

Recently my community was rocked by the suicide of a 15 year old boy. My eldest daughter had been friends with this young man for about three years because they attended the same high school.

At the boy's "Resurrection Mass" the Priest (who the family did not even know before the death of their son) assured the congregation that the boy was in heaven because he had been baptized in Christ. However, apparently neither the priest nor the family knew that the boy had "changed his religion several times," and had come to be a professing athiest (according to conversations he had had with his friends at school).

The Priest went on to tell a story about a graveyard that had one grave outside its hedged border. He explained that that grave belonged to someone who had committed suicide about 100 years ago, and at that time the Catholic Church would not allow a suicide to be buried within the Church cemetery. He concluded, "Thankfully, we do not teach that anymore." He followed up on this with references that seemed to indicate that he was thankful that the Church no longer condemned the homosexual lifestyle becuase they understood that some people were just born that way.

Here he had a church packed to capacity with both Catholics and non-Catholics and he never presented the gospel to them as the only true source for hope in eternal life. This was likely the saddest funeral my family has ever witnessed. There was no hope. Only a half-hearted presentation/justification for the heresy of infant baptism and baptismal regeneration. Shame on the RCC!

One positive note: I know of one young lady who got saved (was born again) at a Baptist youth group session that was being held to support the grieving friends of this unfortunate young man.

[ January 26, 2006, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
These questions direct us to the sordid "history" of the RCC specifically in its "golden age" when those ruled by it were being driven into the depths of the "dark ages" - for the dark ages of mankind in Europe was in fact "the golden age" for the RCC.

The extermination policy it proclaimed in Lateran IV and the inquisition it authored were instrumental in its persection of 50 million Christians over a period of many centuries.

The point is well taken - LOOK at history!

In Christ,

Bob

Originally posted by jay29:

The Church is made up of Saints and Sinners! The good, bad, and the ugly. Besides Protestants have no room to talk. There history is VERY bloody. Just look at America's History. Who turned a blind eye to slavery in the South? Catholics? No way!

Each time the vile sordid history of the RCC is reviewed by the century-load in Europe - the 50 million or so Christians "exterminated" tortured etc by the RCC is always compared to the incidental misdeeds of some single protestant-ish country (usually Catholics that are not in full cooperation with the contemporary RC persecution policies of their day).

But that comparison is misleading.

#1. Because in the very brief cases of the protestant persecution of Catholics you never see "Protestant denominations defending it".

#2. Slavery in the South was not "mandated by some Protestant Pope" Ex-cathedra or not!!

The problem the RCC has BY CONTRAST is that her OWN Councils MANDATED extermination so not only are these monsterous "misdeeds of history" but SHE CAN't RECANT!!

So not only is the proportion of "extermination" MASSIVELY sided toward the RC culpable end of the scale - but she has no way to recant! It is her OWN deeds being recounted and she can not step back from that history AS IF "Well for those many centuries the RCC was in error"!!

She can't even GO to a statement of HERS about "EXTERMINATION" and say "Now THAT was absolutely wrong"!

By contrast there IS NO protestant organization that instituted slavery OR THAT DEFENDS IT to this very day!!

The contrast is "instructive".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And then "of course" there is the litany of RC doctrinal "errors" and the dark night of superstition she inflicted upon the Christian world.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is one example.

If you were a Catholic "soldier" in the time of Martin Luther -- How could you tell that you were killing the "right Catholics"??

Martin Luther was not thought of as a "Lutheran" the way we see it today. Rather he was a Catholic Priest that RETAINED his Catholic priest "magic powers" according to the RCC. So for them he and his followers were not "Lutheran" they were "heretic Catholics".

But one of the big sources of relief for Luther in his early days was the fact that the Catholic armies were "busy" fighting each other as each Pope gathered his own army to fight the opposing pope!

So again -- how could you possibly know that "you were killing the right Catholic" in those days IF you were a Catholic fully devoted to your own Pope??!!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Chemnitz]

But one of the big sources of relief for Luther in his early days was the fact that the Catholic armies were "busy" fighting each other as each Pope gathered his own army to fight the opposing pope!

Bob what is your source on that?
During the Reformation, the Pope did have split attention. The turks were invading from the east. The building of the Basilica of St Peter was draining resources. Emporer Charles not on good terms with the Pope because he had to lay siege to Rome in order to be coronated. On top of that Luther's patron Prince Fredrick of Saxony, who was one of the Holy Roman Empire Electors (councel that voted in the next emperor), was a very powerful and influential person so Emperor Charles would have many problems attacking Saxony and Luther. In addition, Charles needed the Germans on his side to help fight off the Turkish invasion.

 

[riverm]

If it weren’t for the Catholic Church and her knights, keeping Christianity from being swept away from Europe, we’d all be worshipping allah today.

 

[Eliyahu]

The fact that more than 1 billion is RC doesn't prove it is true church. Instead it makes us ponder whether it is the wide open gate or not, beacause our Lord said:

Matt 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait F14 gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because F15 strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Eliyahu]

If there were no Roman Catholic, there would have been much more number of true believers like Albigenes and Waldenese, who were tortured and killed by RC this way:

http://www.exposingchristianity.com/Inquisition.html

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm

Whory roman Catholic, Mother of Harlots !

 

[riverm]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
If there were no Roman Catholic, there would have been much more number of true believers like Albigenes and Waldenese

Wrong, if there where no Roman Catholics you’d be worshipping allah 5 times a day, because the Turks were threatening Europe’s back door in the 1500’s. The Knights of Malta…who were CATHOLIC, where the one’s who prevented the advancement of Islam through the Mediterranean. Read your history…You won’t learn this stuff regurgitating Jack Chick, Dave Hunt or David Cloud… You have a lot to be thankful for...

 

[Alexander]

Thank you, riverrm, for your astute remarks.

The distortions of history and theology that pass for knowledge and wisdom on this thread are incredible.

I thought such vile anti-Catholicism was a thing of the past.

I'm amazed at how a person can take a single incident about one person and use it to condemn millions. For every one who posts something about one Catholic they knew thirty years ago who did something wrong, I can find a corresponding story about some Baptist I knew thirty years ago who did something equally vile. What's the point?

Alexander

 

[HankD]

Then who did Jesus build his church on and give the keys to heaven to? Or is that one of those symbolic situations?

No quarrel there jay, but Christ is still pre-eminent in all things.

Ephesians 2
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The Apostles indeed were given the keys to the Kingdom, and indeed they went into all the world preaching the Gospel and the forgiveness of sins.

We have their legacy today in the completed Word of God and we need no other.

HankD

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Bible-boy:
Here he had a church packed to capacity with both Catholics and non-Catholics and he never presented the gospel to them as the only true source for hope in eternal life. This was likely the saddest funeral my family has ever witnessed.

Uhhh, you were dissappointed with a funeral because the salvation message wasn't shared? Sorry, but a funeral is supposed to be for the living to remember the person. Look, I concur that the Gospel message needs to be presented, but I don't think that this example is an appropriate example to critique the RCC.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by riverm:
Wrong, if there where no Roman Catholics you’d be worshipping allah 5 times a day, because the Turks were threatening Europe’s back door in the 1500’s. The Knights of Malta…who were CATHOLIC, where the one’s who prevented the advancement of Islam through the Mediterranean. Read your history…You won’t learn this stuff regurgitating Jack Chick, Dave Hunt or David Cloud… You have a lot to be thankful for... [/QB]

It is not only Jack chick and Dave Hunt and other critics comments, but the record (such as declaration of Trent Council or Lateran Council) of Holy Catholic Church itself reveals many problems.

Why don't you explain about this:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm

 

[D28guy]

riverm,

"If it weren’t for the Catholic Church and her knights, keeping Christianity from being swept away from Europe, we’d all be worshipping allah today."

Oh my.

Mike

 

[Chemnitz]

Why don't you explain about this:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm

I am supposed to take somebody who believes in the Illuminati seriously and at their word? lol

"Never ascribe to malicious intent that which can be explained by incompetance" - Unknown

 

[Charles Meadows]

Salvation is a personal issue.

The RCC as an entity, particularly as it was in the 1500s is irrelevant in terms of the salvation of an individual today.

As a former catholic I can vouch for the doctrinal error of the RCC. But I can also say that there is enough truth in some catholic pulpits and schools that there ARE saved catholics. As such I am quite disheartened at times to see the venom spewed out by "Christians" like Chick. We will be judged based on what is in our hearts. Are we really disciples of Christ or do we just pay Him lip service? I feel much closer to God now then I ever did as a catholic - and I have an understanding of what it means to have a personal relationship with Jesus. And I would never return to the errors of the RCC.

But when I read the stuff by Chick and others like him I see hate, prejudice, and wickedness of heart. That is not Christian by any means. In fact I would go as far as to say that the RCC has more right than Chick and the hate-mongers do.

 

[mioque]

Eliyahu
"few people know specific details of this murderous campaign that lasted over 1,200 years, killing 75 million people. But, once you understand the unprecedented horrors of the Inquisition, you will never look at Roman Catholicism the same way again."
"
As far as I know the Catholic inquisitions lasted 650 years (1184-1834). As for those 75 million inquisition deaths, let's just say that it is a 'somewhat' inflated number.

 

[D28guy]

Charles,

I agree with you that there can be, and there are, born again Catholics. Jesus said "where I be lifted up, I will draw all men to myself", and in the Catholic Church's perverted and idolatrous way they do "lift up" Jesus.

But because the organistion proclaims a false gospel, and places the curse of the Catholic Church on the true gospel, its very difficult to find salvation in the clutches of the RCC.

Some are born of the Spirit from outside the RCC, but they stay in to witness from within. Some are born of the Spirit and they stay in for other reasons, but they just let the false teaching and blasphemies go in one ear and right out the other.

But I certainly believe that whatever the small amount of saved people their might be, probably 99% of them are regular folk, and not "clergy".

Sadly,

Mike

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
If there were no Roman Catholic, there would have been much more number of true believers like Albigenes and Waldenese, who were tortured and killed by RC this way:

The Albigenses true believers?! Don't make me laugh.