If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

[rockytopva]

I am glad that one denomination does not rule the roost. Give one denomination dominance and bad motivations follow. Such as the spirit of Jezebel (control, persecution, domination), hatred, strife, ego, and every evil work. Which caused the Europeans at one time to declare, "In the name of God begins all mischief," which was said to be an old German proverb.

If your denomination is a persecuted minority there wonderful spirits will follow. And a denomination that was originally good can become evil, even to the point of being comparable to witchcraft and voodoo.

 

[rockytopva]

Being in the persecuted minority also brings forth much beauty. You can sense a miss of this type spirituality after the Roman empire turned to Christianity.

"Therefore I say, He ordained that we should undergo death for the faith, which each man should do for the communion of the Church. For Christianity makes progress by the deaths of its followers. For if death were feared by the faithful, no man would be found to live with perfect faith. For the Lord Christ says, 'Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.'" (John 12:24) –Petilian’s discussions with St. Augustine.

Allegations such as witchcraft and voodoo can bring about persecution. But such persecution also brings about spiritual beauty.

 

[rockytopva]

Back in the 1920's my church, The Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church, was a persecuted church. They would throw rocks, break windows, and do everything to quiet us down. The persecution only saw the church to grow as people would go there to see what was going on and by 1938 it seemed like everyone seemed to be going there. Revivals would go for weeks and my grandfather would stay working the busy altars into the AM hours, and granny would say he would have no problem arising for work very early in the morning. Now there is no persecution our attendance is way down.

 

[1689Dave]

Having experienced the wonder Holy Spirit in my own life I have nothing to study and know this is not Voodoo. Though the Pentecostal revival has not been without her faults, these faults are normally a result of folks going out of the Spirit and into the flesh.And with the flesh we have the old Pharisee - Sadducee (note - Sad-You-See) nature.

I want my faith to stand in the actual power of the Holy Spirit and not in some doctrine of a fleshly natured man.

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:4-5

I have sensed the Holy Spirit in the Baptist church and do not wish to indicate he is not there. I must point out though that the actual Holy Spirit comes with spiritual fruit....

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. - Galatians 5:22-24

People possessed with the actual Holy Spirit also are not prone to the flesh, especially the spirit of variance, which is strife. The anointing of God also does not come with ego, which is the original sin of the devil.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.. - Galatians 5:19-21

Witchcraft and Voodoo was not practiced at Azusa Street and this is a false allegation.

-

Here's how it works. All believers have the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Tongues ceased with the apostles who administered the gifts through their hands. Wm. Seymour, a first generation son of emancipated slaves believed voodoo tongues were the same as book of Acts tongues. The Church of God (Anderson) excommunicated him because of this. At Azusa St, he merged voodoo tongues with Wesley Methodism thinking all was fine.
Pagan Pentecostalism: Its Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery First Edition
by Curtis Edwards

Tongues speaking makes people high and relieves stress. And many today think this is the Holy Spirit because of the buzz they get doing it. But today's tongues are nothing like the originals in Acts. Speaking in Tongues: Glossalalia and Stress Reduction

 

[1689Dave]

Back in the 1920's my church, The Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church, was a persecuted church. They would throw rocks, break windows, and do everything to quiet us down. The persecution only saw the church to grow as people would go there to see what was going on and by 1938 it seemed like everyone seemed to be going there. Revivals would go for weeks and my grandfather would stay working the busy altars into the AM hours, and granny would say he would have no problem arising for work very early in the morning. Now there is no persecution our attendance is way down.

Did these handle snakes too?

 

[rockytopva]

Did these handle snakes too?

The Pentecostal Holiness denomination has never endorsed this and I have never heard of it in the states of North Carolina or Virginia.

 

[rockytopva]

I had a book ministry at work in which some guy, after reading one of the testimonial books, wanted to get saved but not in my Pentecostal Holiness church. I had a friend I knew as Ray who was baptist, so I took him to a Calvinist Baptist church. Well, they had a Franklin Graham testimonial film that Sunday night and my friend goes up to get saved... Only... There is no altar! Some guy gets my friend and takes him to a Sunday School room and begins to talk all that doctrine.... Now get the picture... Here is a guy ready to receive Christ with tears running down his cheek and he is getting doctrinalized! I was thinking to myself for the crying out loud say the sinners prayer! Let him acknowledge Christ so he can go through to salvation!

My friend ended up getting saved that night so I am glad I went. But, my gosh, what complicated methods of salvation!

 

[1689Dave]

I had a book ministry at work in which some guy, after reading one of the testimonial books, wanted to get saved but not in my Pentecostal Holiness church. I had a friend I knew as Ray who was baptist, so I took him to a Calvinist Baptist church. Well, they had a Franklin Graham testimonial film that Sunday night and my friend goes up to get saved... Only... There is no altar! Some guy gets my friend and takes him to a Sunday School room and begins to talk all that doctrine.... Now get the picture... Here is a guy ready to receive Christ with tears running down his cheek and he is getting doctrinalized! I was thinking to myself for the crying out loud say the sinners prayer! Let him acknowledge Christ so he can go through to salvation!

My friend ended up getting saved that night so I am glad I went. But, my gosh, what complicated methods of salvation!

This is not how Calvinism works. But history from several independent studies says Pentecostalism is a mixture of voodoo and Wesley Methodism.

 

[rockytopva]

My family from Floyd County, Virginia....

1. Work on a job Mo-Fr
2. The entertainment was revival, farm work, or family
3. Town on Saturday dressed decently
4. We had prayer meeting in those days Saturday night
5. Very much 'Walton' like in their ways.

Charles Stanley also came from the Pentecostal Holiness church and here is his story....

I was particularly struck by this as I traveled back to my hometown of Dry Fork, Virginia, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Emmanuel Pentecostal Holiness Church—a church my grandfather, George Washington Stanley, planted.

In 1915, 10 believers who’d been meeting as a house church invited Grandad to hold a revival. He set up his tent at the corner of Johnson Road and Dry Fork Road and preached his heart out. By the end, the church grew to 35 members. The next year, in November 1916, that small group of believers invited my grandfather back to be pastor, and he accepted.

Grandad was the minister of Emmanuel Pentecostal Holiness Church only until 1921, but you should hear the way they still talk about his impact on the congregation and community. As I walked through the church, one person after another grabbed my arm to tell me how Grandad had led a dying loved one to the Lord, how God had done miracles of healing through him, and how he’d changed Danville for the better. It touched me deeply to know families there had passed down these stories from one generation to another. But what struck me even more profoundly was the spiritual legacy that continued in that congregation. After 100 years, it was still healthy and reaching people with the gospel.- Enduring Witness

 

[1689Dave]

My family from Floyd County, Virginia....

1. Work on a job Mo-Fr
2. The entertainment was revival, farm work, or family
3. Town on Saturday dressed decently
4. We had prayer meeting in those days Saturday night
5. Very much 'Walton' like in their ways.

Charles Stanley also came from the Pentecostal Holiness church and here is his story....

I was particularly struck by this as I traveled back to my hometown of Dry Fork, Virginia, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Emmanuel Pentecostal Holiness Church—a church my grandfather, George Washington Stanley, planted.

In 1915, 10 believers who’d been meeting as a house church invited Grandad to hold a revival. He set up his tent at the corner of Johnson Road and Dry Fork Road and preached his heart out. By the end, the church grew to 35 members. The next year, in November 1916, that small group of believers invited my grandfather back to be pastor, and he accepted.

Grandad was the minister of Emmanuel Pentecostal Holiness Church only until 1921, but you should hear the way they still talk about his impact on the congregation and community. As I walked through the church, one person after another grabbed my arm to tell me how Grandad had led a dying loved one to the Lord, how God had done miracles of healing through him, and how he’d changed Danville for the better. It touched me deeply to know families there had passed down these stories from one generation to another. But what struck me even more profoundly was the spiritual legacy that continued in that congregation. After 100 years, it was still healthy and reaching people with the gospel.- Enduring Witness

I know Jehovah's Witnesses that share the same sentiments. Mormons too that Iv'e worked for occasionally.

 

[rockytopva]

I know Jehovah's Witnesses that share the same sentiments. Mormons too that Iv'e worked for occasionally.

I found religion in similar methods as presented by Charles Stanley's old grandfather, George Washington Stanley, and it is dear to me. My old great Uncle was listening to Charles Stanley one Saturday night and accepted Christ as his savior after the broadcast, so Charles Stanley is dear to me as well. I am lifelong Pentecostal Holiness. I do, however, enjoy Baptist ministries such as we had with Charles Stanley and Billy Graham.

 

[1689Dave]

I found religion in similar methods as presented by Charles Stanley's old grandfather, George Washington Stanley, and it is dear to me. My old great Uncle was listening to Charles Stanley one Saturday night and accepted Christ as his savior after the broadcast, so Charles Stanley is dear to me as well. I am lifelong Pentecostal Holiness. I do, however, enjoy Baptist ministries such as we had with Charles Stanley and Billy Graham.

Touching...........

 

[1689Dave]

After the Lord saved me, I wandered unknowingly into Pentecostalism. While there I saw lots of debauchery in the clergy. (Which is also common today). And worldliness in church meetings that would make a nightclub owner blush. I also remember seeing a pianist twitching and foaming at the mouth with eyes rolled back in her head. While playing along with the "praise band" whose hypnotic beats would make the Rolling Stones sound like the Vienna Boys Choir. One dedicated soul went home and poured gas on herself and lit a match. While one Word of Faith preacher was busy killing over 100 people including kids who had easily treatable ailments. And it goes on. But this is just a sample of my treacherous bouts with Pentecostalism.

 

[rockytopva]

After the Lord saved me, I wandered unknowingly into Pentecostalism. While there I saw lots of debauchery in the clergy. (Which is also common today). And worldliness in church meetings that would make a nightclub owner blush. I also remember seeing a pianist twitching and foaming at the mouth with eyes rolled back in her head. While playing along with the "praise band" whose hypnotic beats would make the Rolling Stones sound like the Vienna Boys Choir. One dedicated soul went home and poured gas on herself and lit a match. While one Word of Faith preacher was busy killing over 100 people including kids who had easily treatable ailments. And it goes on. But this is just a sample of my treacherous bouts with Pentecostalism.

Which is why all my references are in the past tense. Let's say I end up winning the argument here and winning everyone to the Pentecostal Holiness church. The first thing I would hear would be, "where are all the revivals you have written about?" In which I would have to say they are all in the past tense and the Pentecostal Holiness took the same paths the Methodist did 100 years before them. The next reply would likely be that I wish I would have stayed Baptist.

I have no delight in the changes in the time and the seasons.

 

[1689Dave]

Which is why all my references are in the past tense. Let's say I end up winning the argument here and winning everyone to the Pentecostal Holiness church. The first thing I would hear would be, "where are all the revivals you have written about?" In which I would have to say they are all in the past tense and the Pentecostal Holiness took the same paths the Methodist did 100 years before them. The next reply would likely be that I wish I would have stayed Baptist.

I have no delight in the changes in the time and the seasons.

You need to know more about the Pentecostals than what you let on. I have much more to say about my experiences and the level of depravity I saw in those churches that you do not see in mainline Christian churches.

RESULTS:
Among the baby boomers, Pentecostals had significantly higher six-month and lifetime rates of depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, and any DSM-III disorder. Mainline Protestants had the lowest six-month and lifetime rates of anxiety disorder and the lowest six-month rates of any DSM-III disorder, whereas conservative Protestants had the lowest six-month and lifetime rates of depressive disorder and the lowest lifetime rates of any DSM-III disorder. These relationships among baby boomers were weaker among middle-aged and older Protestants, although a new association with alcohol abuse or dependence emerged among older Pentecostals. When analyses were stratified by frequency of church attendance, associations between psychiatric disorder and Pentecostal affiliation were strongest among infrequent churchgoers, a group also unlikely to seek help from mental health professionals.

CONCLUSIONS:
Young adult Pentecostals in the Peidmont area experienced high rates of psychiatric disorder, which was not generally true for Pentecostals who were middle aged or older. Infrequent churchgoers appeared to be at greatest risk, although they seldom sought professional help for their problems.

Religious affiliation and psychiatric disorder among Protestant baby boomers. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[rockytopva]

You need to know more about the Pentecostals than what you let on. I have much more to say about my experiences and the level of depravity I saw in those churches that you do not see in mainline Christian churches.

RESULTS:
Among the baby boomers, Pentecostals had significantly higher six-month and lifetime rates of depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, and any DSM-III disorder. Mainline Protestants had the lowest six-month and lifetime rates of anxiety disorder and the lowest six-month rates of any DSM-III disorder, whereas conservative Protestants had the lowest six-month and lifetime rates of depressive disorder and the lowest lifetime rates of any DSM-III disorder. These relationships among baby boomers were weaker among middle-aged and older Protestants, although a new association with alcohol abuse or dependence emerged among older Pentecostals. When analyses were stratified by frequency of church attendance, associations between psychiatric disorder and Pentecostal affiliation were strongest among infrequent churchgoers, a group also unlikely to seek help from mental health professionals.

CONCLUSIONS:
Young adult Pentecostals in the Peidmont area experienced high rates of psychiatric disorder, which was not generally true for Pentecostals who were middle aged or older. Infrequent churchgoers appeared to be at greatest risk, although they seldom sought professional help for their problems.

Religious affiliation and psychiatric disorder among Protestant baby boomers. - PubMed - NCBI

psychiatric disorder... Religion is better experienced in the heart. The Apostle Paul would go on to say that knowledge makes for the ego, and just a little ego makes the whole lump bad. The Apostle Paul told the philosophers, “That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.”

If there is any psychiatric disorder people need to get back to the original Pentecostal foundation, the way to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in Metaphor to the Hebrew Temple this image was penned by Seymour himself...

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour, architect of this doctrine. Foot washing was an ordinance of the Azusa Street mission and if this ordinance is properly followed it will leaves an incredibly clean feeling on the inside.
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense (forgive the mis-spelling)
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

 

[1689Dave]

psychiatric disorder... Religion is better experienced in the heart. The Apostle Paul would go on to say that knowledge makes for the ego, and just a little ego makes the whole lump bad. The Apostle Paul told the philosophers, “That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.”

If there is any psychiatric disorder people need to get back to the original Pentecostal foundation, the way to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in Metaphor to the Hebrew Temple this image was penned by Seymour himself...

(Miss spelled altar by the way)


1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour, architect of this doctrine. Foot washing was an ordinance of the Azusa Street mission and if this ordinance is properly followed it will leaves an incredibly clean feeling on the inside.
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense (forgive the mis-spelling)
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

You can dance around this all you want, but metal illness is worse in Pentecostal circles than in mainstream Churches. I've seen the difference first hand and it's huge.

 

[rockytopva]

You can dance around this all you want, but metal illness is worse in Pentecostal circles than in mainstream Churches. I've seen the difference first hand and it's huge.

The Lord told the Sardiseans they were spiritually dead. A spiritually dead church is not the answer either.

 

[1689Dave]

The Lord told the Sardiseans they were spiritually dead. A spiritually dead church is not the answer either.

According to what I've seen, the most spiritually alive Churches are mainstream. The most confused and immoral are in the Charismatic sector, all of which is well documented.

 

[rockytopva]

According to what I've seen, the most spiritually alive Churches are mainstream. The most confused and immoral are in the Charismatic sector, all of which is well documented.

My website at rockytopva is about to to roll over 2 million views. And we teach that the Word of God and the Dpirit of God as two important necessities. A combination of the Word and the Spirit is all one needs.