If we live in a free country ...

[Pastor Larry]

If we live in a free country, then why isn't the FBI, the President, whoever free to monitor whatever they like?

Does freedom in our country really only extend to some people?

I have never thought about this until now, since I am not greatly concerned by it, but the thought came to my mind when I saw someone reference the idea that the FBI was improperly monitoring some groups. I was wondering what, in a world of freedom, consitutes "improper monitoring." Why isn't hte FBI (or anyone else) free to monitor whatever they like?

So tell me, why does freedom only extend to some people and some groups, but not to all?

 

[JamieinNH]

In my opinion, that is a bit of a loaded question.


Being free, and living in a Free country, where we always talk about our freedom, doesn't mean that we give everything away with that freedom.

We are free to choose

We are free to live with the current policy or free to try to have it changed.

We are free to express concerns about policies, or free to agree with current policies.

Free to like or dislike the FBI, the President, anyone in office.

In other words, we are free, but only as free as the Nation on a WHOLE choose. Not free as each Person/Community/Organization chooses.

By the People, For the people not BY a Person, For a Person..

You have to think in terms of "the People" when talking about this type of topic I believe.

Jamie

 

[Ed Edwards]

Pastor Larry: //So tell me, why does freedom only extend
to some people and some groups, but not to all?//

You are not authorized to ask that question.
However, I have the freedom to ask that question:

Ed asks: So tell me, why does freedom only extend to some people
and some groups, but not to all?

 

[just-want-peace]

Being free, and living in a Free country, where we always talk about our freedom, doesn't mean that we give everything away with that freedom.

Couldn't have said it better!!

Too bad the self-proclaimed elites and MSM of this country can't see that.

 

[JGrubbs]

We live in a free country, only because our founding fathers had the wisdom to create a Constitutional Republic that protects the people from the government. When we allow this Republic to be destroyed and allow the government to grow beyond the limits that are to keep it in place, then we allow that same government to take away our freedoms.

We must always remember the past to protect our future!!

"It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." --Voltaire

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government." --Thomas Paine

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty." --Benjamin Franklin

"All Americans need to remember that it doesn't matter one iota whether it is a fascist-leaning conservative or a socialist-leaning liberal who attempts to steal our God-given liberties: each is equally a tyrant and should be vigorously opposed by liberty-loving people everywhere!" --Chuck Baldwin

 

[Pastor Larry]

Jamie seems, so far, to have given the best answer IMO, though I am not sure entirely what his answer is. .

Freedom does not mean that we give away everything. The greater good of the people and the nation certainly limits our freedoms. It seems like we accept that in so many areas, like the side of hte road we drive on, the speed we drive, the bank accounts that we use, the very fact that we get a driver's license. In fact, we rejoice in the limits of freedom that does not allow someone to go in and withdraw money from our bank account.

It seems a bit disingenous to me to claim that freedom protects us from the government when the government has "taken away some of our freedoms" for hte express purpose of our protection. They have done that from the very beginning of this country. In fact, the limiting of personal freedoms is the backbone of our constitution and system of laws. You are not permitted to do anything you want. You have to live by the law of the land.

Living in a free and safe country has always involved an exchange of freedom and safety, and safety and freedom.

Is part of Franklin's "essential liberty" the liberty of cell phone use without monitoring? I hardly think he had that in mind, given today's climate.

And lastly, to quote Chuck Baldwin along with Washington and Franklin seems very presumptuous. But is "God-given liberty" inclusive of complete lack of accountabiliy to our nation and its ideals? Does God give me the freedom to plan terror over the phone lines and then protest that someone has invaded my privacy by listening in? That is not a biblical concept and if Baldwin really believes that it is, my opinion of him just went down.

But seriously, what part of essential liberty or God-given liberty is compromised by monitoring the phone calls and electronic communications of people known to be acting in cooperation with terrorists who are enemies of this country?

 

[JGrubbs]

What is presumptuous about quoting Baldwin along with Washington, Franklin, Paine and Voltaire?? If the quotes are true, does it matter who said them? Or is this simply because you don't like Baldwin? I'm sure your opinion of him didn't have too far to go down, since you have admitted before that you didn't think much of him.

The monitoring of phone calls and electronic communications by the Bush administration has not been limited to those involved with terrorists. There are many US citizens with no ties to the Islamic terrorist who have also been spied on by the administration sin 9/11. Who will be next? Who will Hillary spy on when she is in the White House? As I said on another post, would you support the government putting recording devices in the churches to make sure they are not violating their 501c3 status? What the administration has done by ignoring the laws in place in the name of the "war on terror" has set us up for more and more loss of our freedoms as we look to the future.

Combine this disregard for the Constitution and the law along with the Patriot Act, the National ID card, opening our borders, etc., and you can see how this administration is working to destroy our Constitutional Republic to set up their own form of "democracy".

People like Pastor Larry don't mind giving up rights and liberties like the 4th Amendment as long as it's not them that has do give them up. I wonder how you would feel if it were your calls and emails being read and monitored?

 

[gb93433]

I think it was Peter Marshall who said, "Freedom is not the right to do as we please but to please to do what is right."

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by JGrubbs:
The monitoring of phone calls and electronic communications by the Bush administration has not been limited to those involved with terrorists. There are many US citizens with no ties to the Islamic terrorist who have also been spied on by the administration sin 9/11.

Can you name one?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[just-want-peace]

The freedom some of you espouse is found in the actions of the yo-yo's burning everything in France a few weeks ago.

Freedom WITHOUT responsibility is nothing more than demonic chaos!

C'mon people, anybody who so desires can listen in on your cell conversations if they want to invest in the equipment.

Let's apply a little common sense to all these demands for "absolute" freedom.

This country, right now, would be better off with lesser freedom & rights, and have some responsibility demanded from those who so passionately advocate these rights, but seem to neglect the attendent responsibility.

The following quote sums up the whole problem!

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

 

[gb93433]

You can listen to people talk on a cell phone through a scanner.

 

[billwald]

A country is "free" only in the sense that one may agree to accept its civil contract or may leave if one does not.

 

[Ed Edwards]

JGrubbs: //Who will Hillary spy on when she is in the White House?//

The same type Folks that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton
spyed upon when they were in the White House.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
The same type Folks that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton
spyed upon when they were in the White House.

Perhaps, but we know what Richard Nixon did while he was in the White House, don't we?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
Perhaps, but we know what Richard Nixon did while he was in the White House, don't we?

He probably did a whole lot more than we know about.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by gb93433:
He probably did a whole lot more than we know about.

You've just described probably every person who's ever occupied the office of POTUS.

 

[Bunyon]

First of all. Wa are letting our imaginations run amoke. No one has listened to your phone conversatons. At most a super computer monitored it for a few key words like president and bomb. If it did not hear this, nothing happened, if it did it was flagged and maybe looked at by an anylist.

Its not about trying to monitor citizens! It is about trying to prevent an atomic or dirty bomb from going off in a major city.

And the fact that it was not just the president, but also the democartic leadership in agreement, should tell you that it was necessary. I mean how often do they agree?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
Perhaps, but we know what Richard Nixon did while he was in the White House, don't we?

He probably did a whole lot more than we know about. </font>[/QUOTE]We certainly only know about what he got caught doing. We don't know what he, and probably many other presidents did that they didn't get caught doing. I will leave that to the conspiracy theorists though as I really am not too concerned about it.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
First of all. Wa are letting our imaginations run amoke. No one has listened to your phone conversatons. At most a super computer monitored it for a few key words like president and bomb.

Did I see this in the first season of Alias?

Seriously, you do have a good point, except that we're running amok, not amoke. A moke is a broken down horse, and they can hardly be said to run.

But you're right. No citizens have been monitored on routine conversations, or any such nonsense.

 

[Bunyon]

This technology is common knowledge and has been reported on by serious journalist.

Relax, no one is going to care if they hear you placing bets with your bookie or care if they do.
That is, of course, if his name is not Osama.