If you can walk away from your relationship with Christ

[LeBuick]

No other person can separate me from Christ, but if I choose my will instead of His and refuse to correct my course, I will be lost eternally. Demas did this, loving the present world (2 Tim 4:10). If he had forsaken Paul, I think it's reasonable to conclude that he had forsaken Christ as well. If we love the world, the love of God is not in us (1 Jonn 2:15). Demas loved the world. Unless he repented, he was lost.

The question is would a saved person deliberately separate themselves from Christ? You said refuse to correct my course, that doesn't sound like one who is fully committed to Christ.

Was Demas saved? It is said he preferred the Jewish lifestyle which is what he returned to. One can't be a Christian still holding on to Judaism.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

LeBuick: One can't be a Christian still holding on to Judaism.

HP: When do you see Peter as being converted?

 

[LeBuick]

HP: When do you see Peter as being converted?

Good question...

I say at Mat 16:18... Thou art the Christ etc...

I realize others feel later after his denial. Then others say the 11 were converted with the spirit before Pentecost. I still say when he mouthed the confession of faith.

 

[Amy.G]

No other person can separate me from Christ, but if I choose my will instead of His and refuse to correct my course, I will be lost eternally.

How do you explain this verse?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,



Do you think that you have the authority to break the seal that God Himself has placed on you?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

LeBuick: One can't be a Christian still holding on to Judaism.

HP: Could not it be said in some sense that Peter, as reflected in Acts, was guilty of still holding onto Judaism, again in some degree?

 

[steaver]

No other person can separate me from Christ, but if I choose my will instead of His and refuse to correct my course, I will be lost eternally.

Absolutely no scripture found that supports this opinion.

Demas did this, loving the present world (2 Tim 4:10). If he had forsaken Paul, I think it's reasonable to conclude that he had forsaken Christ as well. If we love the world, the love of God is not in us (1 Jonn 2:15). Demas loved the world. Unless he repented, he was lost.

One should not make assumptions that are not written. This is where the error creeps into forming doctrines. Nowhere in the scripture does it state Demas was once saved and then lost or saved but headed for lostness.

 

[steaver]

HP: Could not it be said in some sense that Peter, as reflected in Acts, was guilty of still holding onto Judaism, again in some degree?

Absolutely correct! We all have our issues of failure and loving things of this world. This does not make one saved but lost.

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver, are you certain you said this as you wanted to?

 

[steaver]

HP;

Steaver, are you certain you said this as you wanted to?

Yep! Either you are saved (born of God) or you are not. There is no such thing as saved but lost, back and forth as you sin. Once born a soul, always a soul. Once born a child of God, always a child of God. Jesus brillantly of course used the perfect analogy...a birth! Something unchangeable.

:jesus:

 

[webdog]

The question is would a saved person deliberately separate themselves from Christ? You said refuse to correct my course, that doesn't sound like one who is fully committed to Christ.

Was Demas saved? It is said he preferred the Jewish lifestyle which is what he returned to. One can't be a Christian still holding on to Judaism.

How many parent / child relationships are suffering due to the child separating themselves from the parent's love. Does the child cease being a child?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Absolutely correct! We all have our issues of failure and loving things of this world. This does not make one saved but lost.

HP: Reading your statement here, what makes one lost and not saved are “issues of failure and loving things of this world.” One could only conclude that if one is having these issues one is indeed lost and not saved. One could further conclude, you having stated that ‘we all have” these issues, is that we all are lost.

 

[BTM]

The question is would a saved person deliberately separate themselves from Christ? You said refuse to correct my course, that doesn't sound like one who is fully committed to Christ.

I don't think anyone would just get up one morning and decide they were going to leave the faith and turn back to the world. But life happens to all of us, and each of us makes choices. If one, even one committed to the faith, were to make a small compromise, it could ( and often does) lead to more compromises. Continuing in this fashion, one could eventually find himself far from the path of righteousness and headed for worldly living.

People can become discouraged through many circumstances. A spouse can leave a faithful Christian claiming "unhappiness". It happened to me. It's VERY discouraging!

Was Demas saved? It is said he preferred the Jewish lifestyle which is what he returned to. One can't be a Christian still holding on to Judaism.

I don't think we can prove from the Scriptures what it was about the world that Demas loved, only that he had departed from Paul, "...having loved this present world" (2Tim 4:10).

Demas was with Paul when Paul wrote the letter to the Colossians (Col 4:14), and when he wrote to Philemon, Paul referred to Demas as one of his "fellowlabourers".

I don't believe Paul would have been confused about Demas' being a Christian, do you?

It's the knowledge that a Christian can be lost, suffering even greater punishment than a nonbeliever (2 Pet 2:20-22; Heb 10:26-31), that helps keep me focused on denying the lusts of the flesh and hanging in there.

My personal experience is not my source of authority, I merely use myself as an example of one who is at risk due to unfortunate life experiences.

 

[LeBuick]

HP: Could not it be said in some sense that Peter, as reflected in Acts, was guilty of still holding onto Judaism, again in some degree?

You got me on this one...

I know Peter continued to walk with his Jewish brothers but he preached Christ. I see nothing that makes me believe Peter continued to live according to the law or felt obedience to the law was the path to salvation.

What makes you feel Peter continued to hold to Judaism?

 

[LeBuick]

How many parent / child relationships are suffering due to the child separating themselves from the parent's love. Does the child cease being a child?

If we are on the same page then no, they don't loose child-ship because they left the parent. However Jesus commitment is different. Parents will sometimes so to the child fine if you want to go and be on your own then go. Jesus promised to leave the 90 and 9 to go after the one lost sheep and he won't stop looking until he finds them.

 

[LeBuick]

If one, even one committed to the faith, were to make a small compromise, it could ( and often does) lead to more compromises. Continuing in this fashion, one could eventually find himself far from the path of righteousness and headed for worldly living.

<snip>

Demas was with Paul when Paul wrote the letter to the Colossians (Col 4:14), and when he wrote to Philemon, Paul referred to Demas as one of his "fellowlabourers"..

I see where you're going but can only respond with this. There are many who are AT Church that are not IN Church. Because one hangs with Christians or even labors on their behalf doesn't make them part of the body of Christ. We (to include Paul) don't know who is who. Some we feel may not be saved could be saved and some we know absolutely are saved may be on His left at the judgment.

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Many go about doing Church work but forget to first become part of the Church.

 

[steaver]

HP: Reading your statement here, what makes one lost and not saved are “issues of failure and loving things of this world.” One could only conclude that if one is having these issues one is indeed lost and not saved. One could further conclude, you having stated that ‘we all have” these issues, is that we all are lost.

I understand your pov from my statement.

Steaver: Absolutely correct! We all have our issues of failure and loving things of this world. This does not make one saved but lost.

Let me rephrase. Issues of failure and loving this world does not negate one's salvation.

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Let me rephrase. Issues of failure and loving this world does not negate one's salvation.

HP: I would rather let God phase it for us. 1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Lu 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.