If you Hold To calvinism as being "wrong" per Bible, What is Your proof?

[Skandelon]

I love that verse as a Calvinist. But I will not say that we have full life and salvation before belief but that the Spirit "quickens" us. I believe there's a difference.

'Quickens' means to 'make alive.' So, according to your soteriological system God must 'make us alive' so that we can believe and then once again 'make us alive' through his name for salvation. I guess it's pretty easy to find biblical support for the pre-regeneration view when you presume we have to be made alive not once, but twice.

 

[preacher4truth]

'Quickens' means to 'make alive.' So, according to your soteriological system God must 'make us alive' so that we can believe and then once again 'make us alive' through his name for salvation. I guess it's pretty easy to find biblical support for the pre-regeneration view when you presume we have to be made alive not once, but twice.

How do you arrive that it has to happen twice?

 

[Skandelon]

How do you arrive that it has to happen twice?

She said they were two different things, so she seemed to be arguing that prior to faith the person must be 'quickened' and after they believe they are 'made alive' as the verse said:

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

But 'quickened' is just another way of saying "to make alive."

 

[JesusFan]

She said they were two different things, so she seemed to be arguing that prior to faith the person must be 'quickened' and after they believe they are 'made alive' as the verse said:

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

But 'quickened' is just another way of saying "to make alive."

Or another way of Just saying that due to His Grace applying to us, can than make a "free will" decision

Unless God allows us to get saved, we cannot get saved

Whose Will wins out, hi9s or ours?

 

[Skandelon]

Or another way of Just saying that due to His Grace applying to us, can than make a "free will" decision

Unless God allows us to get saved, we cannot get saved

Whose Will wins out, hi9s or ours?

That's fine, but if you call what He does before "quickening" then you have said that he must "make us alive" before and after we believe.

 

[JesusFan]

That's fine, but if you call what He does before "quickening" then you have said that he must "make us alive" before and after we believe.

He must apply "Grace" towards so that we have means to accept Jesus by Faith, as we don't have that within ourselves!

He extends grace to those who will come to Chrsit...

Some say we than can reject/accept Jesus
others that we will accept Jesus!

 

[InTheLight]

He extends grace to those who will come to Christ...

Really? That seems very un-Calvinistic.

So which is it? He extends grace if we come to Christ?

OR

We can only come to Christ if he extends grace?

 

[JesusFan]

Really? That seems very un-Calvinistic.

So which is it? He extends grace if we come to Christ?

OR

We can only come to Christ if he extends grace?

Both!

On way into heaven , we see a sign saying "whosoever wills"

Once in, look back see sign" all those saved from before the foundation of the earth!"

 

[Winman]

Both!

On way into heaven , we see a sign saying "whosoever wills"

Once in, look back see sign" all those saved from before the foundation of the earth!"

It must be the end the world, I agree with Jesusfan here!

It IS both. It is like a farmer. Only God has the power to make crops grow, to make a seed burst open and spring into life. But the farmer must plow his fields, he must plant the seed and water it for it to grow.

God provides his word. It is quick and powerful. But we must hear, we must believe before God's word will effectually work in us. If you do not believe the gospel, it will not profit you.

You could own a farm and pray for God to fill your fields by himself. It isn't going to happen, because God doesn't operate that way. He requires us to participate. It is the same in salvation. He offers the grace, but we must receive it by faith.

1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[TomVols]

When are these endless threads from JesusFan GOING TO STOP!! :BangHead:

Well said. :thumbsup:

Some folks on both sides need new hobbies....or at least, new hobby horses.

I know....ESCHATOLOGY!

 

[JesusFan]

Well said. :thumbsup:

Some folks on both sides need new hobbies....or at least, new hobby horses.

I know....ESCHATOLOGY!

Still "free in Christ" to post, Eh?

 

[Bronconagurski]

So you not hold to either cals/Arms who hold that due to the fall, we Must have God apply some type of Grace towards us before able to be able to trust in Christ?

Arms see it as common Grace not regeneration!
SOME see "irresistible Grace" same way!

The two sections of scripture below epitomize what I believe about God's grace. First, God's word will accomplish what He sends it out to do. Now, in the church age, when the gospel is preached, then the Holy Spirit convicts men. I have seen this in my personal witness. Some receive the message and are saved as God gave the increase through the foolishness of preaching and the power of the Holy Spirit. But some get under conviction, and have even admitted they knew they should get saved, but didn't want to quit their sin at this time. I could see the conviction as the Holy Spirit worked. What was the difference? I believe God gave them all a choice. Some reject, some do not. But, in this regard, God had to reveal Himself through the scriptures and by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that is the grace provided for our salvation, in my opinion.
Isaiah 55:11 (NASB)
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

John 16:7-14 (NASB)
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.