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If you say you are non-denominational - are you really?

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In every church denomination there is a variety. Even in Paul's time...

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - Acts 17:10-11

There was no book in the Bible written to the church at Berea. And so it is with denominations we have a variety. Some better than others.
 

Armchair Apologist

Well-Known Member
I would like to add that some non-denominational ARE Bible believing churches - but why would you not want to
convey that in your name?
There have been some really great "Non-Denominational" churches who leave no doubt what they believe. Case in point, what denomination was John MacArthur and Grace Community Church? Hypothetical question here: If he were to register with the Baptist Board, would he be a "Baptist in good standing" or would his participation be restricted to the general discussions?:Cool
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
In every church denomination there is a variety. Even in Paul's time...

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - Acts 17:10-11

There was no book in the Bible written to the church at Berea. And so it is with denominations we have a variety. Some better than others.
The Hebrew Bible has every word the Old Testament has. It's broken down into three sections. The first is the Torah, the first five books in the Old Testament. The second section is the Nevi'im (Prophets) that contains: Joshua, Judges, Samuel (combined as one single book), Kings (combined as one single book), Isiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel. This one also includes Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi as one single book. The third is Ketuvim (The Writings): Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Nehemiah, and Chronicles.

The people in the verse are Jews who actually studied all these scriptures. The prophecies of the Messiah cover two periods. The first is the Messiah is born from a woman who is a virgin, while in Bethlehem. He will be from the line of David. He will arrive to Jerusalem riding the colt of a donkey to. He will be punished, pierced, die, and then resurrected. The other set of prophecies include the Second Coming when Jesus returns with an Army from Heaven to destroy God's enemies (Satan and his demons).

In Judaism, the Messiah (Mashiach) is not a divine figure, a savior from personal sin, or someone who dies and returns. He is an ordinary, mortal human leader who must achieve clear, visible global changes during his actual lifetime.

Now to the verse you quoted. It says the Jews in the Berea were more noble than those in Thessalonica. Unlike many Jews, those in Berea actually studied all the scriptures of the Hebrew Bible. This made them more receptive to Paul's teaching. Paul wasn't in Berea long because the angry mob of Jews in Thessalonica came to Berea to get Paul. The Jews in Berea got him out of town and to the coast to put him on a ship to Athens. Paul left Silas and Timothy behind to continue the beginning of the church in Berea.

Just because there have been no letters found from Paul written to the church Berea doesn't mean that it failed, because it didn't. Verses 12-14 read, "12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men. 13 But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was preached by Paul at Berea, they came there also and stirred up the crowds. 14 Then immediately the brethren sent Paul away, to go to the sea; but both Silas and Timothy remained there."

It didn't fail after Silas and Timothy left. We can see that in 2 Chronicles 8:1-4. "Moreover, brethren, we make known to you the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia: 2 that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded in the riches of their liberality. 3 For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing, 4 imploring us with much urgency [a]that we would receive the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 5 And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God."

The churches in Macedonia he started were in Philippi, Thessalonica, and Berean. Although none of these churches are named individually still doesn't mean the church in Berea failed. Let's look at the history of that church. In Paul's Epistle to Philemon, it mentions Onesimus who was a runaway slave. He became the first bishop in Berea (now called Viera). The church continued to grow during Roman rule and it became a Christian community with Jews still living there. During the Byzantine Empire, the city was home to 70 churches. 51 of them exist today.

What denomination did the original church belong to? There were no denominations at that time. It was The Way.
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
There have been some really great "Non-Denominational" churches who leave no doubt what they believe. Case in point, what denomination was John MacArthur and Grace Community Church? Hypothetical question here: If he were to register with the Baptist Board, would he be a "Baptist in good standing" or would his participation be restricted to the general discussions?:Cool
That's a good question. Many say he was a Reformed Baptist and others a conservative evangelical. He considered himself a Biblicist.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Prior to retirement my wife and I attended a Baptistic "Community Church."
It was distinctly non-denominational, developing its own statement on church governance, doctrine and missions,
but the church avoided describing themselves as "Baptist" - it was not mentioned in any of their documents.

Why? - - in our region, the urban Baptist churches did not always hold to core Baptist beliefs.
Use of the name "Baptist" negatively affected our witness among the community.

Baptists in general share core beliefs, denominational Baptists (a subset of Baptists) are part of a formal association with shared governance, mission priorities, and sometimes doctrinal statements,
Independent Baptists operate without such formal structures.

The church I currently attend is a non-denominational Independent Baptist Church.
It's located in a more rural setting, (mostly farm country).
The name Baptist isn't a burden to carry here - and in fact, the name may be an attractor to those burdened under a more authoritarian church structure.

Rob
 

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
what denomination was John MacArthur and Grace Community Church?
Grace Community Church of the Valley was founded in the mid 1950s as an offshoot of radio evangelist Virginia Hogg's Country Church of Hollywood. She and her husband William B. Hogg (who'd died in 1937) were Southern Methodists, but their radio ministry and local church downplayed denominationl differences.

From the 1965 Los Angles Times obituary of Grace Community Church's founding pastor:

"...Dr. Householder, before establishing Grace Community Church eight years ago with 12 members, was associate pastor of Trinity Methodist Church 13 years and pastor of the Country Church of Hollywood four years..."

householder.JPG
 
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Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Grace to You ❧ Fiftieth Anniversary of Grace Community Church

Phil Johnson: "Now Grace Community Church had roots in the Methodist church, right?"

John MacArthur: "Yeah, it was an independent church, but it was founded by a guy named Don Householder who had been pastor of a church in LA called Trinity Methodist; and he came out and planted a church"

[MacArthur neglects[?] to mention Householder's time with Virginia Hogg's Country Church of Hollywood, which followed his stint at Trinity Methodist, where he was actually an associate pastor under Bob Shuler]
 
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rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Methodist roots... I have them too! I think it is a terrible thing to have read into how the UMC (United Methodist Church) formed and what all they did to destroy the movement (as I have previously posted).
 
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