If you were Roy Moore, what would you do?

I can acknowledge God without erecting a stone monument to the Ten Commandments at my workplace.

Dale-c, are you going to erect a stone monument of the Ten Commandments at your workplace? Are people who fail to do this not Christians? I thought we needed to take the Lord Jesus Christ as our savior and ask forgiveness for our sins.

I personally feel that Judge Moore's actions turned his monument into an idol. I know that a lot of people will disagree with me but that's how I see it. I also think that when he was ordered to remove the monument he should have paid for the removal instead of making the state taxpayers pay to remove the idol aka Ten Commandments monument.

 

I agree. Obviously, there are forms of government that are much better than others, but they are all imperfect to a greater or lesser degree.

Yes, but we should not be so woodenly literal that we restrict that teaching to only monarchies led by a male leader.

You just jumped the rails.

If Romans 13 was written within that last 225 years or so in the United States, your interpretation would be hard to dispute. But since Romans was written to subjects of the Roman Empire, living in and near the capital of that thoroughly pagan culture and government, you interpretation falls apart.

In Romans 13, Paul instructs the Roman Christians (and the rest of us as well) to submit to a pagan government and teaches us that even the pagan officials are ministers (that is, like the priests of the Jewish temple) of God in their appointed roles.

The Roman government “acknowledged” all sorts of pagan gods, and even eventually worshipped Caesar as a god. Furthermore, Christians were routinely and systematically persecuted in that culture, blamed for the burning of Rome. When Christianity was finally legalized by Constantine in the Edict of Milan in 313, it marked the beginning of a decline in the vitality of the church.

The rest of your assertions are built upon your faulty interpretation of Romans 13, so I won’t belabor the point by repeating myself.



"The notion of a Christian commonwealth should be exploded forever...Government should protect every man in thinking and speaking freely, and see that one does not abuse another. The liberty I contend for is more than toleration. The very idea of toleration is despicable; it supposes that some have a pre-eminence above the rest to grant indulgence, whereas all should be equally free, Jews, Turks, Pagans and Christians." – John Leland, A Chronicle of His Time in Virginia

 

If I were put in a position that Mr. Moore is in, I would acknowledge and affirm my belief in God, no matter what the consequences. That was my answer to the poll.

That is what I would want to do.

Question is, can I ?

I don't know. Peter saw Jesus feed multitudes, walk on water, speak with Moses and Elijah, raise Lazarus from the dead, heal his own mother-in-law, yet at a critical time, he denied Jesus.

I guess what we can really say is we all need grace from God in situations like that so that what we say is from the heart and the spirit, not from the flesh and bravado.

But I admire Mr. Moore, nevertheless.

 

Explain and document this please.

 

Dale: A resounding AMEN!

 

I didn't realize that Roy Moore owned the state judicial building. When did he purchase the building from the taxpayers?

 

Those Christians who believe what Moore did was wrong are trying to cover their cowardice?

Obviously your argument has been discredited, so you have to resort to attacking those who disagree with Moore.

You're really killing your credibility here.

 

Would you also "Amen!" this teaching?

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar, and to God the things that are God's?"

 

How about: "Being a Christian is such an integral part of my life that there are few times when I am not acknowledging Him. However if what you are asking is will I continue to blatantly force my beliefs on the citizenry by means of a monument in the rotunda, then I will not. I do believe that the courts were wrong in asking for it to be removed. I also believe that the court in question has no authority over how the state of Alabama acknowledges God. But I recognize my own mistake in not accepting the courts authority until the matter of authority could be thoroughly examined by those parties described in the law as having the authority settle such matters. I also take responsibility for not filing an appeal in the matter in a timely fashion.

If in the future, despite the best of my abilities, my actions result in a blurring of the line between Church and State and it cannot be resolved I will tender my resignation. My first responsibility is to God, but within that I believe I am able to perform the duties of Chief Justice without forcing my personal religious beliefs on anyone."

 

Since the building was not his, and the decoration of the building was part of his job, then he was accountable to others and the law for how he performed that duty. Neither he nor you can claim that it was his to do as he pleased.

So you wouldn’t have a problem if a Roman Catholic judge decided to place a huge image of the Virgin Mary in the rotunda, or a Muslim judge created a 5,400-pound replica of a passage from the Koran that claimed that Allah was the only true God and Islam was the only true faith?

Well then, does it apply to anyone here or were you simply making vague charges against those who would never read what you wrote? If you mean to apply it to some persons here, then own up to your claim and be specific.

As a witness for Christ, yes it does. Why do you think that Jesus and the New Testament writers spend so much time talking about character?

Yes. But that has very little to do with Roy Moore’s claims, except that the Ten Commandments monument functioned as an idol for many Christians.

 

Fundamentally, it is a spiritual issue since the impetus to separate church from state came directly from the teachings of Jesus.

Yes it is. The teachings of Jesus are the real issue here.

There you go again. Personally, I don't choose sides by looking to see what atheists do and then trying to do the opposite. I look to Jesus and study his teachings (as well as the Old Testament and the rest of the New Testament teachings) to determine how to live my life. I also listen to the voice of the Spirit, guiding me to make wise and timely choices that fulfill the work of the Kingdom of God.

I'd rather be standing with Jesus for His principles and teachings among atheists than be in good graces with Roy Moore and His followers.

 

Those who did not support Judge Moore sided with the atheists in the same way that people who buys Fords or Chevies, or support the same sports team as an atheist, or watch the same television programme as an atheist.

Everyone alive sides with atheists every day. I'd say even our friend Dale sides with atheists every day.

 

Except he does not acknowledge that our government was established as a secular government that is to be neutral toward religion. As a functionary of that government, his job is to represent the government in a neutral manner toward religion.

He did not.

He was removed.

He could not separate his desire to promote his religious beliefs upon others from the professional role he was being paid to fulfill.

For example, I am a technical writer for an engineering and architecture firm. I share my faith among my co-workers in a natural and productive way, but I don't write my religious beliefs regarding God's role in creation into technical documents for geotechnical or environmental services. I have a role to fulfill for our firm and if I don't like the oversight or play by the rules, then I should find another job or work for myself.