If you were Roy Moore, what would you do?

[Revmitchell]

I believe the opposition has it wrong. And that the 10 Commandmants should be displayed anywhere.
However, when Judge Roy Moore was told by his boss to take them down he should have done so. His handling of this whole thing has only hurt the situation.
There is no scriptual mandate to display the 10 commandments in our court houses. Although it is the perfect place for them.
What he was told to do is not an equivlient to inhibition to displaying them in our homes, churches, or anywhere private.
Why should we be surprised that lost sinners do not want them displayed? Those who do not have a heart for God are always going to oppose displaying his laws. I am surprised at those who calls them selves christian and fight against the displaying of them.
I am concerned that the constant attack on public displays of our christian heritage of this country will lead to a private intrusion on both prayer and our bibles.
Do not discount the possibility that those who oppose God and wish to have him removed from their view and attention will continue to inch forward with their hatred of public recognition of our creator.
And the fear mongering from those who claim christianity but fight against such displays will only lead to aid in the at private intrusion against God and his word.

 

[Dale-c]

Do not discount the possibility that those who oppose God and wish to have him removed from their view and attention will continue to inch forward with their hatred of public recognition of our creator.
And the fear mongering from those who claim christianity but fight against such displays will only lead to aid in the at private intrusion against God and his word.

This is exactly what will happen!

BTW, REvMitchell:

Check out this article.

The storm of moral crisis has descended upon Alabama. Among the most vital issues facing American jurisprudence are (1) whether our legal system may acknowledge the Higher Law of God as the source and measure of our laws; (2) whether the establishment clause of the First Amendment prohibits the State of Alabama from acknowledging God and His law as the moral foundation of law; (3) whether the State of Alabama (and the 49 other states) are distinctive and viable entities in the American constitutional system or whether they are merely closely supervised subdivisions of a national government; and (4) whether it is ever appropriate to disobey the order of a federal judge.

All of these issues come together in the Alabama Ten Commandments case, often cited as Glassroth v. Moore.

And more from the article:

Black's Law Dictionary, Fourth Edition offers the following definition:

" Interposition. The doctrine that a state, in the exercise of its sovereignty, may reject a mandate of the federal government deemed to be unconstitutional or to exceed the powers delegated to the federal government.

The concept is based on the 10th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States reserving to the states powers not delegated to the United States. Historically, the doctrine emanated from Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dallas 419, wherein the state of Georgia, when sued in the Supreme Court by a private citizen of another state, entered a remonstrance and declined to recognize the court's jurisdiction. Amendment 11 validated Georgia's position.

Implementation of the doctrine may be peaceable, as by resolution, remonstrance or legislation, or may proceed ultimately to nullification with forcible resistance.

The Constitution does contemplate and provide for the contingency of adverse state interposition or legislation to annul or defeat the execution of national laws." In Re Charge to Grand Jury, Fed. Case No. 18,274 [2 Spr. 292].

That article should help you more on just what the authority was.

 

[Jarthur001]

What does that have to do with a Christian acknowledging God? The state is not Christian, and I am glad of it. This "state" cannot acknowledge a God it does not know. To do so would be the epitome of hypocrisy.

You cannot force people to acknowledge with their lips when they do not do so with their hearts.

Praise God that Judge Moore wants to acknowledge God, but he can't do so on behalf of the people of Alabama.

Hello,

I'm late in coming to this thread. I'm also leaving in a few hours, so I may not reply.

Yet I want to ask you C4K and others that feel this way, if you/they would hold all church views from all faiths to the same as you hold moore? In other words, if a given and known church of any kind that was not your faith, come to your public school and teach its faith, would you object, or does this only apply to Moore?

Now it is a given by all that our faith can not be forced, nor should it be. But what moore is doing, is it the church or a person of fatih?

Does moore, who is not a church have the right to share his faith in a public way on public grounds being that he is from the people of the state? Now you may not agree with how he does it, and you may never do it this way, but does he have the right as a person to display his faith..(again Moore is not A CHURCH)...on the grounds that he pays taxes on? I know his Church cannot do this...but can he acting on his own do this?

I think he has that right

Thanks...


In Christ...James

 

[menageriekeeper]

We are to obey man's laws ONLY when they are NOT in direct conflict with God's Law.

But no where in the Bible does it call for scripture to be plastered into our government buildings. It is not a conflict with God's law to not have the Ten Comandments in the rotunda of the state justice building.

True. But what is at issue here is precedence (snip)
The ten commandments, crosses, christian symbols, etc., have been an accepted part of the landmarks in this country.
There have been no legislation against these until these times, so I think the battle is against agendas.

There is the same legislation that there has alway been. This was not a historical monument left from a time in this country when most people at least paid lip service to the Christian religion. We(the church) got complacent in the last century and quit converting our own. Now Christianity is no longer the majority in this country.

Those of other religions or no religion at all got together and used very same laws that give Christians the right to worship freely, to demand their own right to worship freely, or not as the case might be. These people feel the same as we do about not wanting the symbols of another religion pushed in their face. Just as we wouldn't want passages of the Koran on a pedestal in a courtroom we are in, they don't our scripture in theirs. So how does our country settle those arguements?

There is only one choice: Respect all religions equally, just like our Constitution tells us to.

We as Christians don't like that. We want things to be overtly Christian like they were 50-60 years ago (this point is debatable btw). You know what that makes us? Pushy. Pushy? Yes that what I said.

If we as Christians had wanted things to remain overtly Christian, we should have done a better job in the past of getting people saved. Not converted, saved. Conversion does nothing without salvation except produce a country full of wishy washy Christians who don't know what they believe.

We Christian Americans are simply spoiled. We want things our way, but haven't put the work into it that is required. What do Christian's in other countries who have strict law about religious worship do? Because they don't set up a monument in the square are the not acknowledging God?

If we want our country to become overtly Christian again then we have to work on changing the hearts and minds, not of our government officials, but of our neighbors. When we do that, we won't have to worry about setting up monuments.

2co 3:1Are we beginning again to commend ourselves? or need we, as do some, epistles of commendation to you or from you?

2co 3:2Ye are our epistle, written in our hearts, known and read of all men;

2co 3:3being made manifest that ye are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in tables [that are] hearts of flesh.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Yet I want to ask you C4K and others that feel this way, if you/they would hold all church views from all faiths to the same as you hold moore? In other words, if a given and known church of any kind that was not your faith, come to your public school and teach its faith, would you object, or does this only apply to Moore?

I don't think ANY religion should be promoted by the state in any way.

 

[Jarthur001]

I don't think ANY religion should be promoted by the state in any way.

Thank you for your reply.

Would you also agree with this statement already made...

The United States government is a secular government.....
The United States government is a humanist government.....
The United States government is a “Godless” institution....

Found in full with this link below...?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=818262&postcount=44

 

[Dale-c]

I don't think ANY religion should be promoted by the state in any way.

What about the religion of secular humanism?

Oh, and you don't care if they legalize murder right? After all, that would a promoting of God's law.
That is what we have become and now we have the murder of the unborn and of the elderly.

That, C4K, is the result of your godless government!

 

[Dale-c]

I don't think ANY religion should be promoted by the state in any way.

Are you saying that is more important that obeying the First Commandment?

God doesn't really care what the "majority" thinks.
He will hold every single judge who defied His name accountable for their action.

God doesn't give a plug nickel for all of the other religion in the US.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The 1st Amendment says just that - Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Sounds like pretty hands off to me

 

[menageriekeeper]

Check out this article.

Quote:
The storm of moral crisis has descended upon Alabama. Among the most vital issues facing American jurisprudence are (1) whether our legal system may acknowledge the Higher Law of God as the source and measure of our laws; (2) whether the establishment clause of the First Amendment prohibits the State of Alabama from acknowledging God and His law as the moral foundation of law; (3) whether the State of Alabama (and the 49 other states) are distinctive and viable entities in the American constitutional system or whether they are merely closely supervised subdivisions of a national government; and (4) whether it is ever appropriate to disobey the order of a federal judge.

All of these issues come together in the Alabama Ten Commandments case, often cited as Glassroth v. Moore.

The State of Alabama has more pressing moral problems than whether or not a judge can put up a monument.
At least a third of our crimes are drug related. Our drug rehab facilities are full. Our teenagers are getting themselves pregnant with an alarming frequency because nearly half of our high school kids are having sex. And all this goes on in a state where most adults claim some form of Christianity!
We need to worry about the real problem of why we are not out harvesting souls and discipling Christians far more than we need to worry about monuments.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Oh, and you don't care if they legalize murder right? After all, that would a promoting of God's law.
That is what we have become and now we have the murder of the unborn and of the elderly.

That, C4K, is the result of your godless government!

I submit that our godless government is the result of Christian's not working to change the hearts and minds of the individuals around us. Abortion then is the result of our own lazyness in personally witnessing our faith to other.

The early Church didn't concentrate its efforts on changing the Roman Government. Instead it concentrated on discipling individuals. Perhaps we should go back to our real roots.

 

[Dale-c]

The 1st Amendment says just that - Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Sounds like pretty hands off to me

So, the first Amendment in your view is more important than the 1 Commandment?

BTW, what does the US congress have to do with this anyway, last I checked, congress never made a law respecting the establishment of a religion.

Oh, and in case you forgot, most states at that time had state churches.
NOt that I am in favor of such, but they were "legal" but there could be no federal church.

But at any rate, please tell me what establishment Moore passed a law to respect?

 

[Dale-c]

Our teenagers are getting themselves pregnant with an alarming frequency because nearly half of our high school kids are having sex. And all this goes on in a state where most adults claim some form of Christianity!
We need to worry about the real problem of why we are not out harvesting souls and discipling Christians far more than we need to worry about monuments.

Yes, and the real problem can be found in Romans 1

The people of Alabama claim to know God, but they glorify Him NOT AS God, so they have become vain in there imaginations and God has given them over to a reprobate mind.

 

[Dale-c]

I submit that our godless government is the result of Christian's not working to change the hearts and minds of the individuals around us. Abortion then is the result of our own lazyness in personally witnessing our faith to other.

I will agree that Christians have been lazy and have not tried much to promote the Christian faith...but surely you can't say I have not tried? Not that I can change hearts, only God can do that.

Abortion then is the result of our own lazyness in personally witnessing our faith to other

Abortion happens when we do not Glorify God as God.
If there is no God, then there is no right or wrong.

Abortion itself is the wrath of God I believe.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Soooo, you think if all we Alabama reprobates get together and put us up a ten commandments monument in the middle of Montgomery for the "glory of God", then we won't have so many spiritual problems?

Now I'm catching a hint of idol worship.

 

[Dale-c]

Soooo, you think if all we Alabama reprobates get together and put us up a ten commandments monument in the middle of Montgomery for the "glory of God", then we won't have so many spiritual problems?

I never said that.

Now I'm catching a hint of idol worship.

Yes, there is plenty of that, when judges think that they are higher than God, they make an idol of themselves.

 

[Dale-c]

BTW, Moore was not the one that put himself above God, that would have been Thompson.

 

[Jarthur001]

The 1st Amendment says just that - Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Sounds like pretty hands off to me

Thank you again...

The Supreme Court refers to the important 1957 case of Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia (101 U.S. App. D.C. 371) in its holding that Secular Humanism is a non-theistic religion within the meaning of the First Amendment. The religion of secular humanism is what drove pray out of school. The religion of secular humanism took the Bible out of school.

To promote "God is dead", is a statement of faith.

Humanist Manifesto II
...More recently they have generated concerned social action, with many signs of relevance appearing in the wake of the "God Is Dead" theologies. But we can discover no divine purpose or providence for the human species. While there is much that we do not know, humans are responsible for what we are or will become. No deity will save us; we must save ourselves....

The goverment is PUSHING a faith on the church....and the church is buying it

The whole idea...NO GOD...is in fact a religion.

http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/

with Churches..

http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/
http://www.churchoffreethought.org/

with a aganda to their non-theistic religion....

If what you believe is real then we want to believe in it too.
But if what you believe isn't real, then do you really want to stick with it?​

Suppose that all the Bibles in the world were suddenly destroyed and couldn't be reconstructed from memory. Would people still believe in Jesus? Would it be the same as the Bible today? Suppose that all the science books in the world were wiped out and no one remembered science. If people started rediscovering science from scratch would evolution still exist? Would gravity still exist? Would we come to the same conclusions if we started over a second time? Yep - we sure would!

We aren't here to undermine faith. We are here to undermine fictional beliefs. What are fictional beliefs? The simple answer is - every other religion except yours. You would at least admit that there are a lot o religions out there that are dead wrong. So isn't it a good thing if the Church of Reality were to undermine all of them? Yes - of course - that would be a good thing. And - if what you believe is the really real true religion then I'm sure that we will confirm that and you can go on believing in what you believe in now.

If your God is afraid of reality then how almighty is he?​

We believe that false faiths will not stand up to the tests. False faith isn't accountable. False faith will not stand up to the purification of truth. If you bring falsehood out into the light it will disintegrate. But real truth will pass the test of scrutiny and will be strengthened by doubt. We are not afraid of reality, are you?

Secular Humanism has the Church of the true God fighting the battle for a NO GOD state. Secular Humanism has the church in fear and mislead them in thinking the believe can not stand for his faith and display it in public places. Yet in doing this the secular humanism is putting forth their own faith, and the Church is letting them and helping them.

How sad can it get?


Press on till HE comes...

In Christ...James

This is not to anyone...just a statement of my feelings.​

 

[Dale-c]

Secular Humanism has the Church of the true God fighting the battle for a NO GOD state. Secular Humanism has the church in fear and mislead them in thinking the believe can not stand for his faith and display it in public places. Yet in doing this the secular humanism is putting forth their own faith, and the Church is letting them and helping them.

This is what I have been getting at when I have said that people are "siding with the atheists"

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Yes, and the real problem can be found in Romans 1

The people of Alabama claim to know God, but they glorify Him NOT AS God, so they have become vain in there imaginations and God has given them over to a reprobate mind.

Wow - and I thought your previous claims were harsh. The people of Alabama did not vote for Judge Moore so they are doomed - given over to reprobate minds, which the rest of the passage is charactrised thusly - " Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. "

Dale has just declared Alabamians God haters and worthy of death for not giving Judge Moore the republican nomination.

No room for disagreement here - agree with Moore and Dale or you have been given over to a reprobate mind.

I've had enough Dale - this comment forces me out of this debate. You win.