IFB Cultic Element

[Ulsterman]

Please remember the orignal poster is not an American. He lives in Northern Ireland. Hence, his question is that of an outsider looking for information.

If one looks at the many and various flavors of Baptists in these United States without an understanding of the issues involved, you'd be thinking "cultic." Most countries have only two at the most three sorts of Baptists. In most cases, there is the old line Baptist Union and then there are the non-Union churches.

Thank you Squire. Actually I am living in England now, pastoring my third IFB church, perhaps my OP was a little broad and inclusive of all 57 varieties of IFB's, but in the UK there are relatively few IFB churches. However, that said, from time to time I encounter people who come into our circle, (some with the independent, independent mentality, others connected with various mission agencies and mission boards BIMI, BBFI, BWM, etc) who's strange ideas occasionally worry me. Some come espousing a Christian should wear certain types of clothing, others have sub-cultural notions about dating and courtship, some are so strongly KJVO that they consider the chapter and verse divisions as "inspired", some will separate from you if they don't like the sound of your sneeze (not literally - but you know what I mean). Some are so strong on "pastoral authority" they overlord believers lives. Some hold the church constitution in their head. I could go on.

I am not suggesting any of the above make a minister or his flock a cult per se, but some of it has "cultic" undertones, which caused me to wonder about some of the more extreme elements lurking under the banner of Independent Baptist Fundamentalism. Sorry, JOJ, you were disappointed with my OP, but this is my perspective. FYI I am IFB - glad to be so, have been for 27 years now, enjoying the good, suffering the bad and scarred by some of the ugly, but that life. I am IFB by conviction, and thank God for the majority of men anch churches I have encountered who are true servants of our Lord Jesus Christ, quirks and all.:1_grouphug:

 

[John of Japan]

Ulsterman, I certainly admit that in a number of the IFB groups there are more than the normal share of wackos, if you know that good American word. I have to love the movement anyway, though. None of the alternatives with their compromises attract me. As my father, an independent Baptist preacher who preached the Gospel for 60 years, used to say, "I'd much rather be criticized for having standards that are too high than for having standards that are too low!" :thumbs:

God bless!

John R. Himes
Asahikawa, Japan

 

[akrahnert]

Ulsterman,

Your concern is genuine, as I have discovered for myself, being a recent member of an IFB church (and a good one) here on Long Island, that there are many
"flavors' that are present within the IFB spectrum in regards to beliefs and practices among various congregations, that would lead some to become cultic in nature.

Unfortunatley, being independent does at times tend to allow for certain men to
become prideful and arrogant by the fact that they themselves have become enamoured by this independence, being given over to spiritually "isolating" themselves from other IFB pastors and their own congregations, not having and not wanting to be accountable, in a biblical sense, to anyone.

Of course this can happen to any person, in any demonination, IFB, SBC, Methodist etc. Some seem to have a pre-disposition towards this kind of behavior, especially the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, mainly due to either having errant doctrine or no doctrine, and the fact that many have been formed as independent bodies with a single founding pastor.

The way to deal with such abberations within the IFB churches is to be sound in the Word of God. Study Scripture. That is our guide, not any man, for man is not infalliable, even if he is a pastor or a layperson. Each must be accountable, one to another.
Pastor with pastor, member with member and pastor with member, all within the IFB, even if we are "independent". But yet we are not, for we are ALL in the Body of Christ, and that is the CHURCH, whether we claim to be of this "faction" or of that "faction" within the IFB.

Paul warned us of the dangers of following men, even himself, when he wrote "Who is of Paul, or who is of Apollos?" We are to follow Christ, for we are His Church.

If more biblical discerment by the study of scripture where practiced among ALL who are in IFB churches, coupled with having accountability to one another, cult like tendencies would not have a chance to take root and grow.

No one church is perfect, for we are all on the path of continual sanctification, but we are all accountable for our beliefs and actions, first to God and then to our brethern. Be careful though; the world is watching.

"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."

(Proverbs 27:17)

In retrospect, I am glad the the Lord has put my wife and I in an IFB church.
The pastor preaches from the Word, will not compromise and is ever willing to teach sound doctrine. We sing the old hymns that are filled with good scripture.

I agree with John of Japan; It is better than being in any of the churches/demnominations that have compromised and succumbed to liberalism/post-modernism or the wacky and bizarre world of the Charismatic Movement.

In Christ Always

 

[Bro. Williams]

Etymologically speaking, however, the dictionary also defines a 'cult' as being 'devoted attachment to, extravagant admiration for, a person, principle, etc.' So by that definition there are cults in the IFB movement.

Well thank God I am part of a cult then. For that definition is exactly what we strive to be in my IFB church, all those things in regards to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word. Amen and amen.

 

[Ulsterman]

Well thank God I am part of a cult then. For that definition is exactly what we strive to be in my IFB church, all those things in regards to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word. Amen and amen.

I would only thank God for it if that person was the Lord Jesus Christ and the principles based on the Word of God. If the person is the pastor or someone else, and the principles humanly developed then it is a cult irrespective of the name over the door, e.g. Westboro B. C.

 

[Bro. Williams]

I would only thank God for it if that person was the Lord Jesus Christ and the principles based on the Word of God. If the person is the pastor or someone else, and the principles humanly developed then it is a cult irrespective of the name over the door, e.g. Westboro B. C.

That is why I said in regards to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word.

 

[mnw]

Interesting thread...

To me the churches/pastors that seem cultic are the ones that:

1. Add or remove Scripture (Of course this is done via linguistic gymnastics normally and not obvious adding or removing)
2. Demand blind obedience to their teachings
3. Lord authority over others
4. Manipulate and emotionally or physically bully
5. Deliberately isolate from others in order to maximise control

Of course this is not a thesis, and just immediate thoughts and impressions.

I think personal standards (such as clothing, courting, sneezing etc) can be preached in either a Biblical or "cultic" manner.

I think some seem to have confused being cultic with being a cult. And in trying to fit the OP into a dictionary definition of a cult is to miss the point. To say someone is cultic, is not to say they are a cult. It just means they are demonstrating behaviours characteristic of the cults.

 

[Mark_Shrey2000]

There is NO CULTS that I have yet seen in IFB. I disagree with some things but as a IFB I would have to say none of these things are cultish.

 

[Ulsterman]

To say someone is cultic, is not to say they are a cult. It just means they are demonstrating behaviours characteristic of the cults.

That's it. I have been an IFB pastor for over 20 years, it would be really silly of me to suggest IFB churches are cults. But, like MNW said, some IFB pastor's and churches have what appear to be cultic qualities, i.e., blindly following a leader/pastor, spiritual, verbal or emotional abuse of a congregation etc. That's all that was being queried. These types exist in many groups, but the OP was quering if IFB's areparticularly susceptible.

 

[Ulsterman]

To say someone is cultic, is not to say they are a cult. It just means they are demonstrating behaviours characteristic of the cults.

That's it. I have been an IFB pastor for over 20 years, it would be really silly of me to suggest IFB churches are cults. But, like MNW said, some IFB pastor's and churches have what appear to be cultic qualities, i.e., blindly following a leader/pastor, spiritual, verbal or emotional abuse of a congregation etc. That's all that was being queried. These types exist in many groups, but the OP was quering if IFB's areparticularly susceptible.

 

[christianyouth]

I go to an IFB church, and 2 weeks ago we went to camp.. The Preacher said that instead of having posters of super-stars on our wall we should put posters of preachers on our wall..

Oh yeah, + the preachers signed Bibles.

Those are cultic undertones.

 

[Bro. Williams]

I go to an IFB church, and 2 weeks ago we went to camp.. The Preacher said that instead of having posters of super-stars on our wall we should put posters of preachers on our wall..

Oh yeah, + the preachers signed Bibles.

Those are cultic undertones.

Yeah, that Bible signing thing kind of unnerves me as well. The picture on the wall thing, sounds idolatrous, no?

I would like to say to please note that this isn't by any means specific to IFB's alone, it happens all over the denominational spectrum.

 

[tinytim]

I go to an IFB church, and 2 weeks ago we went to camp.. The Preacher said that instead of having posters of super-stars on our wall we should put posters of preachers on our wall..

Oh yeah, + the preachers signed Bibles.

Those are cultic undertones.

OH Great!!!!

I will have some posters made up of me, and you all can have one at the very low price of $19.99...

That's right only $19.99... You can get an autographed poster of Tinytim!

But you have to act now because supplies are limited, and they will go fast!

This offer is limited to posters on BB...
Non -BB members will have to pay the regular price of $39.99

And for the first 100 orders, I will throw in a wallet size picture that will remind you of what I look like!

You don't want to miss out on this amazing deal.

 

[Bro. Williams]

What about the money back guarnatee?

 

[tinytim]

The money Back Guarantee will cost and extra $5...

 

[Tom Bryant]

Is the autograph done by you personally or did you have an assistant sign it.

I agree about the Bible signing thing, but I do keep a Bible I had signed by Dr. Roberson, Hyman Appleman and Dr. Rice.

 

[tinytim]

I have seen one IFB church I would consider cultic...

This church existed (It still may) in the town I grew up in.

The Pastor at that time demanded obedience...
All the women had to have long hair.
Men short hair...

Women HAD to wear dresses even at home.
No TVs were allowed to be in member's homes..

He was KJVO, and would list 1611 on everything they did... but he actually preached from the KJV 1769.

He would rebaptize people even if they came from other IFB churches.
He was a control freak...

At one funeral he berated the loved ones for not being good Christians...

He was so seperated he had split personalities!!! just joking...

But him and his assistant pastor were really jokes in the town.. when they went to Krogers you always knew it... you would hear, "Praise God, they have syrup" Or "Hallelujah, chicken is on sale" and "Well, hello brother, I see you are not carrying your trusty sword today, why not"
They were loud and obnoxious...

 

[tinytim]

Is the autograph done by you personally or did you have an assistant sign it.

I agree about the Bible signing thing, but I do keep a Bible I had signed by Dr. Roberson, Hyman Appleman and Dr. Rice.

I will do it myself..:laugh: Don't expect many orders anyway!!! :tonofbricks:


The only Bibles I regularly sign are the Baptism Bibles I give away...
Although I had a little girl come to church a couple weeks ago from a family that didn't own a Bible, so I gave her one.. and she wanted me to sign it for her.. So I did... Her sister said that she read that Bible all week, and would get on her sister for sinning...

 

[Squire Robertsson]

The poster on the wall line is over twenty five years old. Back in Bible college, I had my Bible signed by various and sundry preacher. Back then, the idea was you'd pray for the men who signed. However, all this happened before a bunch of preachers got to thinking they were the second coming of J. Frank Norris.

I go to an IFB church, and 2 weeks ago we went to camp.. The Preacher said that instead of having posters of super-stars on our wall we should put posters of preachers on our wall..

Oh yeah, + the preachers signed Bibles.

Those are cultic undertones.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I agree about the Bible signing thing, but I do keep a Bible I had signed by Dr. Roberson, Hyman Appleman and Dr. Rice.

I almost forgot... speaking of cultic :laugh: it was a Hyles-Anderson College Edition Bible that i got for giving $25 to the college :tonofbricks: