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Ifb evangelists

evangelist6589

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Probably because I am TYPING on my iPhone and can't look up scriptures and cite them for you. But when I get to my Mac I will post some tonight or tomorrow. There are DOZENS of verses to support LS I just can't figure how anyone can miss them. I study the bible in depth and find LS well supported in scripture. The reason I cite MacArthur is that he has done an EXCELLENT job in his book Faith Works defending LS. He lists dozens of scriptures. This is not te opinion of a man written to make a profit but in the bible.

Those of you that think Mac invented LS are as ignorant as a goat! Plenty before Mac emphasized it going back to the Bible.

Stay tuned I will post verses when I get to a real keyboard.
 

Jordan Kurecki

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In Luke 14:24,25, these are the last two verses of a parable. Three verses later he begins another parable. Now consider the two verse stuck in between these two parables:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

The parables are about discipleship and are directed to disciples not to those ones that are first trusting Christ. There is a doctrine of sanctification that needs to be considered.
Most new Christians would never be at the place to obey Luke 14:26,27, especially the day they are saved. Those verses are written to mature Christians, those who Christ is commanding to go the mission field, for example. Would you send a new believer to the nation of India when he hardly knows the gospel himself?
Would he be willing to forsake all that he has including his own family just one day after he is saved? Really?
Amen.:applause::applause::applause:
 

evangelist6589

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I would like to make a few comments about repentance, Repentance absolutely is necessary, there are many who will not get saved because they know that getting saved will change them, and many of them do not want to be saved out of sin, I have met people who told me they believed Christ died for them, they believed they were a sinner, but they would not trust in Christ, because they love their sin too much. So in this situation, this person must repent of their sin and have a changed of mind and heart about sin in general, usually the king pin sins in their lives.

I believe the Lord has really given me clarity on this issue of repentance.

When I got saved, There were a lot of things in my life that I did not even know were sinful, so when I got saved it wasn't like I made a conscious decision to turn away from all my sins, it was more of like I just knew I was wicked and I "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ"

Lordship Salvation is heretical, because every day I realize more and more just how wicked I truly am and God shows me every day areas where he is in fact not Lord in my life, and any honest believing Christian who takes any time to evaluate themselves will agree with this.

In Acts 17:31 Paul talks about how God commands all men everywhere to repent, this is in the context of him speaking to idol worshipers, This is because in order to truly trust in Jesus Christ and him alone, you must turn from your idols that you are trusting in, this is also the same thing I believe Paul is talking about in 1 Th 1:9.

Peter says in Acts 2 to repent, but he's talking in context to the Jews who have rejected Jesus, so I believe he's commanding them to repent of their unbelief of the Messiah and their rejection of him, a almost identical event takes place in Acts 3 with another command to repent.

Then of course you have the example in Luke 13:3 to repent, if you look at the context, it's very obvious that what Jesus is commanding to repent of is self righteousness, which prevents a person from truly believing on Christ.

So then we come to the question, must a person repent of sin to be saved? well it all comes down to what you mean repent of sin, if you mean that in order to be saved a person must be willing to go home, and pour out all their alcohol, throw away their pornography, and stop sinning, and this is what you mean when you say "turn from your sins" than you are preaching heresy and you have placed the focus on a self works. I believe repenting of sin is simply that if your love of sin is preventing you from placing your faith in Christ, because you know he will changed you and you don't want to be changed, than yes you must repent of your sin because it is preventing you from trusting in Christ.

For example, Jesus said it is better to pluck your eye out, then to be cast into hell with both, Jesus is simply teaching that you need to turn from anything that is preventing you from receiving salvation,

4Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

If someone loves their life to much to turn to Christ, then they will die and go to hell, so repenting of sin, really is turning from the love of sin which is preventing one to receiving and trust on Christ.

The problem is many people never study out the context of when the word repent is used, and they often reference something they have heard from someone else like a parrot and they will simply quote something like Luke 13:3 and say "look it says to repent, so you must turn from your sins to be saved". This is dangerous especially to people who go around telling people that they have to turn from their sin to be saved, a lost person cannot stop sinning if they do not have the spirit of God, and when you tell people this you are placing a huge stumbling block in the way of them being saved, and it can often turn into works salvation.

The word repent, carries the idea of a change of mind, heart, and attitude. The question you must always ask is, when the bible uses the word repent, what is it saying there must be a change of mind, heart, and attitude about?I challenge you people who hold such strong views about repentance to actually go and look at the context of how the word is used and do a biblical study on it., if you will go to these passages I have mentioned, and look at the context of where repenting is being commanded I know that the Lord will give you clarity if you seek it. Stop reading books on repentance, stop listening to preacher, go straight to the texts and passages that use the word, and it will help you understand the doctrine of repentance greatly.


Heretical?????
 

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Probably because I am TYPING on my iPhone and can't look up scriptures and cite them for you. But when I get to my Mac I will post some tonight or tomorrow. There are DOZENS of verses to support LS I just can't figure how anyone can miss them. I study the bible in depth and find LS well supported in scripture. The reason I cite MacArthur is that he has done an EXCELLENT job in his book Faith Works defending LS. He lists dozens of scriptures. This is not te opinion of a man written to make a profit but in the bible.

Those of you that think Mac invented LS are as ignorant as a goat! Plenty before Mac emphasized it going back to the Bible.

Stay tuned I will post verses when I get to a real keyboard.
ok listen to me, stop reading Mac, and other books, find the so called passages that you think teach salvation by Lordship of Christ, read them, and consider their context, don't look at any commentaries, and pray, and tell if you still believe it teaches LS.

Also be reminded that discipleship does not equal salvation. your reading that into the word if you do that.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
How do you understand the words of Jesus in Luke 13: especially verse 3 where he says "except ye repent you will perish"

Just curious

Thanks in advance

Romans 5:1

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

This is in an OT setting. IOW Christ had not yet died yet and was preaching the same message of repentance that John the Baptist was. Compare this to both the message in the book of Acts and especially what is taught in the epistles. It is very different.

Secondly, the situation is very different. These were Jews who thought they were very different, and very much better than all others in the world. If the tower of Siloam fell on 18 people and killed them then they deserved it. It was a judgement of God. That was their attitude.

The answer of Jesus was to warn them and tell them it wasn't so. They weren't any different then those of Siloam. If they didn't repent (of this attitude especially) they also would perish. It was a warning to them about their attitude of superiority over others. Yes, all needed repentance, but these especially in judging others compared to their air of superiority.
Repentance is a change of mind. They needed a change of mind in their thinking of others, in their thinking towards God.
 

Jordan Kurecki

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Heretical?????

Yes and you will damn people's souls if you they think they have to submit to Christ in every area in order to be saved.

You cannot tell a sinner that he must be willing to stop sinning to be saved, he knows he cannot do that, and you will damn people to hell if you go around teaching that, and if you say that they must be willing to make Christ Lord of their life that is most likely what they are going to think you mean.

Souls are in the balance here Evan, and I implore you to study up on this, lest ye be found to be a cause of misdirecting and leading dear precious souls astray.

The only way a sinner will get saved is by placing their faith in Christ, not by making a conscious effort to make Christ the Lord and being obedient. A person must become a new creature by faith in Christ before they can learn to be obedient.

also what about babes in Christ? ever seen someone who just got saved? they do not make Christ Lord of every area of their life.

is Christ Lord of every area of your life?
 

Van

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"In order to receive Jesus Christ as Lord, you must repent of your sins and put your trust in Jesus Christ alone, as the only hope of eternal life, the Bible says."

So the lack of Jesus as Lord and repentance are in the eye of the beholder because they are not lacking in the actual track.
 

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Probably because I am TYPING on my iPhone and can't look up scriptures and cite them for you. But when I get to my Mac I will post some tonight or tomorrow. There are DOZENS of verses to support LS I just can't figure how anyone can miss them. I study the bible in depth and find LS well supported in scripture. The reason I cite MacArthur is that he has done an EXCELLENT job in his book Faith Works defending LS. He lists dozens of scriptures. This is not te opinion of a man written to make a profit but in the bible.

Those of you that think Mac invented LS are as ignorant as a goat! Plenty before Mac emphasized it going back to the Bible.

Stay tuned I will post verses when I get to a real keyboard.

If you studied the Bible half as much as you read all these books you should be able to at least give a Reference to these Dozens of Verse you are talking about. You don't even have to list a dozen just 2 or 3 would at least get the ball rolling, instead of telling people to go out, buy a book and read it. (And yes I actually do have Faith Works it's on my MacArthur shelf.) I think its absolutly counterproductive to site books as your authority when debating Biblical Truths. First of all it is a logical fallacy, and second and more important of all underminds Sola Scriptura. Scripture is our authority and the only authority everyone on here is going to agree is an absolute authority.
 

Rolfe

Well-Known Member
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Probably because I am TYPING on my iPhone and can't look up scriptures and cite them for you. But when I get to my Mac I will post some tonight or tomorrow. There are DOZENS of verses to support LS I just can't figure how anyone can miss them. I study the bible in depth and find LS well supported in scripture. The reason I cite MacArthur is that he has done an EXCELLENT job in his book Faith Works defending LS. He lists dozens of scriptures. This is not te opinion of a man written to make a profit but in the bible.

Those of you that think Mac invented LS are as ignorant as a goat! Plenty before Mac emphasized it going back to the Bible.

Stay tuned I will post verses when I get to a real keyboard.

Two items in comment:

1. You should have bought an Android phone. I can open multiple windows in its browser. :laugh:

2. Has MacArthur made money off of book sales?
 

evangelist6589

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Site Supporter
ok listen to me, stop reading Mac, and other books, find the so called passages that you think teach salvation by Lordship of Christ, read them, and consider their context, don't look at any commentaries, and pray, and tell if you still believe it teaches LS.



Also be reminded that discipleship does not equal salvation. your reading that into the word if you do that.


Stop reading David Cloud and other KJVO types and think for yourself. How can the KJVO position be biblical?
 

evangelist6589

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Yes and you will damn people's souls if you they think they have to submit to Christ in every area in order to be saved.



You cannot tell a sinner that he must be willing to stop sinning to be saved, he knows he cannot do that, and you will damn people to hell if you go around teaching that, and if you say that they must be willing to make Christ Lord of their life that is most likely what they are going to think you mean.



Souls are in the balance here Evan, and I implore you to study up on this, lest ye be found to be a cause of misdirecting and leading dear precious souls astray.



The only way a sinner will get saved is by placing their faith in Christ, not by making a conscious effort to make Christ the Lord and being obedient. A person must become a new creature by faith in Christ before they can learn to be obedient.



also what about babes in Christ? ever seen someone who just got saved? they do not make Christ Lord of every area of their life.



is Christ Lord of every area of your life?


LS does not teach that people do not sin, nor does it teach that men are submitted in every area. It simply teaches that it's a process.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
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If you studied the Bible half as much as you read all these books you should be able to at least give a Reference to these Dozens of Verse you are talking about. You don't even have to list a dozen just 2 or 3 would at least get the ball rolling, instead of telling people to go out, buy a book and read it. (And yes I actually do have Faith Works it's on my MacArthur shelf.) I think its absolutly counterproductive to site books as your authority when debating Biblical Truths. First of all it is a logical fallacy, and second and more important of all underminds Sola Scriptura. Scripture is our authority and the only authority everyone on here is going to agree is an absolute authority.


You have the book on you? Then whip it out and post 3 verses he uses. I can't recall at this time.
 

blessedwife318

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You have the book on you? Then whip it out and post 3 verses he uses. I can't recall at this time.

No I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to do your work for you. Besides you should not need Mac's book to post Scripture, or to at least know the references to back up an idea you are arguing for.
 

evangelist6589

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2 Cor 5:17 the HS just reminded me of. LS teaches that true converts turn from sin and submit to his lordship. This does not happen overnight but it's a process.

Oh yeah Mac made up that verse and by being reminded of it from his book I am following the teachings of a man. Hogwash. The scripture is the authority and God gifts the church with gifted men to teach.
 

evangelist6589

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No I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to do your work for you. Besides you should not need Mac's book to post Scripture, or to at least know the references to back up an idea you are arguing for.


Luke 13:3 and 2 Cor 5:17 are two verses

John 10:27 is a key one
 
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evangelist6589

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No I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to do your work for you. Besides you should not need Mac's book to post Scripture, or to at least know the references to back up an idea you are arguing for.


You are afraid of scripture and too bent on your baptist traditions to be challenged by scripture.
 

blessedwife318

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Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come
2 Cor 2:17 ESV
 
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