IFB sometimes gets it wrong!

If I may, a couple of tweaks in our semantics.

We all seem to agree that Jesus is Lord over all. It's not a question of "making" him our Lord. Paul's instruction to the lost is to "confess" him as Lord (Romans 10:9). John of Japan recoils at "Lordship Salvation" (grist for a separate thread) but he is correct that Jesus is both Lord and Savior. The two should not be separated.

We should take care in the terminology we use. For instance, no where in Scripture are we told to "invite (or ask) Jesus into your heart."

We ought to be careful with such phrases as "accepting Christ." It's not in the Bible. The scriptural concept is that God accepts us because of Christ's finished work.

How many time have your heard the preacher, during the invitation, say "come to Christ," meaning down here at the front? Or, "meet Christ here at the altar." What are the messages he's sending here.


The very words we use to present the gospel are important.

Our terminology reflects our theology. This is too important not to get it right.

 

Bibllicists!

BIBLICISTS!!!

You sound like a Sewellite! Are you?

 

I might be because my name is Sue and I am neither a Calvinist or Arminnian. :godisgood:

 

What in the world is a Swellite??? Never heard of it and can't find it googling.

Kinda like the term "biblicist" my self.

 

Biblicist sounds nice but...

The term Biblicist sounds nice, but the trouble with it is that it can be rather ambiguous (splg?).

Both the Calvinist and the Arminian would insist that they are "biblicists". Or you could take any divisive issue today and both sides could claim to be "biblicist".

There can be an undertone of arrogance with such a term as well (I am not saying that a person who has adopted this term is by any means arrogant) for it assumes that the other side is not biblical at all, when there are scriptural arguments that can be given.

Dr. Kevin Bauder of Central Baptist Seminary said these words that I thing are interesting and relevant:

 

Do you have a source for your quote from Dr. Bauder?

 

Bibllicists!

Sorry,

Had a brief flash back to a college professor that stressed that he was a Biblicist first and a Baptist second. I have taken that approach to my ministry. It just sounded a little like something he might say. It was kind of a running joke with those of us that were close to him at college.
I attended Baptist Bible College in Springfield, MO and the prof. name is Dr. James Sewell. I count him as a friend and mentor. A great man, he pastored at the time I was there.

 

JoJ, Here is the source:
http://www.centralseminary.edu/publications/AACCS.htm

 

Thank you.

 

All has become clear. :thumbs:

 

Yes, Dr. Sewell is a great man. He was a supporting pastor before he stepped away from the pulpit. Although I must admit that I did not know that he had a fan club-!:laugh:

 

Whoops maybe I wasn't clear. Jesus is Lord whether we acknowledge that or not, but he isn't Lord or master of our life unless we make him so. How many preachers preach on this fact. If we worship anything more than we do God or we do not surrender ALL to him then he isn't "Lord".

All I am saying is too many people are just fine with him being their saviour and saving them from hell or a horrible lifestyle, but he isn't their master in their lives. That is all I am saying.

Again you will always read that Jesus is Lord AND Saviour. He can't be one without the other IMHO

Lordship is a matter of SURRENDERING and YIELDING our will to his....not just his position.

 

Lordship is a matter of SURRENDERING and YIELDING our will to his....not just his position. TBLADY, I appreaciate your zeal here to get it right. However, you still are missing the mark. I do agree that we ought to surrender our lives to the Lord, but that is not "making Him Lord." You have it right that too many people claim He is their Savior but do not yeild to Him as Lord. However, your terminology is not in the Scriptures. Please fix your theology. He is already Lord of all, we cannot make Him that. What we can do is, as you have said, yield our will to his. This is what it means to take up our cross and follow Him.

In spite of the fact that "Savior" appears in the NT 25 times, the words "Lord" and Savior" only occur together in the NT the following 8 times: Luke 2:11, Php, 3:20, 1 Tim. 1:1, Tit. 1:4, 2 Pet. 1:11, 2 Pet. 2:20, 2 Pet. 3:2, 2 Pet. 3:18. In none of these passages are we told to "make Christ Lord" or "receive Him as Lord and Savior." Yet many times in the Bible we are told to believe. "Believe" (or some variation) and "Lord" only occur together in the NT 25 times, but "believe" (or some variation) occurs alone 240 times in the NT.

 

I guess will have to agree to disagree. Who knows maybe I believe in Lordship salvation.

All I know is if we do not ACCEPT him as Lord of our life at salvation, how can he be our saviour? "Call upon the LORD Jesus Christ and he shall save you from your sins" and "Believe on the LORD Jesus and thou shall be saved"

Now the quote in your signature is of question IMHO

For we do not win souls GOD DOES!

 

I am saved and Jesus Christ is my Savior, but if I go astray or I do not have a daily walk with the Lord and I do not always 'hear and obey', then at that point in time, Jesus is not the Lord of my life - but He is still my Savior.

Some people do not know the meaning of 'being born again', and some people are just plain 'lost'. We are commanded to go soul winning. Jesus said He would make us "fishers of men". I have led people to the Lord (that is called winning souls).

Of course, we cannot save anyone, but God is in the saving business and we can lead souls to Him.

 

You seem to want to pick a fight with me if you go so far as to question my signature!

We do win souls to Christ. It is God who saves them, that is certainly true, but we are His tool to present the Gospel. With the power of the Holy Spirit we lead souls to Christ.

The Bible is clear that we win souls: Pr 11:30--"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise." Here the fruit of a righteous person is parallel to winning souls (a characteristic of Hebrew poetry). Cross reference to John 15:8--"Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." Fruit bears fruit that is the same. Therefore, a Christian bears fruit in the form of a new Christian.

 

These Scriptures do not say what you want them to. The Bible says, "Call upon the Lord Jesus Christ," and not "Call upon Jesus as Lord." It says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus," not "Believe on Jesus as Lord."

Also, your logic is faulty. If someone rescues me from drowning are they then my lord? No. If a child is rescued from drowning, the rescuer is his savior in a very real sense. But the child by no means recognizes any authority in the rescuer. And before you object to this comparison as being unbiblical, the Greek word in the NT is the same whether the rescue be eternal or temporal, done by God or man.

I was saved at the age of 4. And before you say that is impossible, Christ told us that we must become as little children to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Now at age 4, I knew nothing about Jesus Christ as Lord of the universe, but I knew a very real conviction of sin, and I knew Jesus was the only Savior. So I repented of my sin and trusted Him for salvation, and He saved me.

 

However when one was baptized they could have lost their life for naming Jesus as Lord because often the emperor or leader was viewed as lord. When the person named Jesus as Lord that meant they were renouncing the leader as lord. The could have prompted persecution or death wishes by the leader resulting in the new believer being executed.

 

Exactly. Baptism is a public profession of faith in Christ. In the 1st century culture, as you have pointed out, you couldn't very well be baptized without proclaiming Christ as your Lord. However, some (such as Joseph of Arimathea) were secret believers. One can be a secret believer in many cultures, saved but not yet accepting the Lordship of Christ.

It is the same in Japan. Deciding to receive baptism is a huge choice here. The family and friends at that point will often persecute the believer for the first time. I have known young people who, at that time, were kicked out of their home for receiving baptism.

 

The IFB's get it wrong about alot of things. Trust me. I know.