Ignorance worse than arrogance?

[Luke2427]

Anecdote:

You need heart surgery NOW. If you don't have it within the next half hour you are going to die. You are at a camp in the wilderness of Alaska a good six hour hike from the nearest hospital.

In the camp with you are about twenty five people. In that group there are 5 people who claim to know what is wrong with you and claim to be able to cut open your chest and fix the problem. The problem is that not one of them has been trained to do so. Each of them have their claim as to why they are certain they can perform the procedure. Two of them say they've seen it done dozens of times on TV. One of them says he has read The Encyclopedia of Medicine. The other two claim God speaks to them and told them that they could do it and that they will listen to the still small voice of God within them for instructions throughout the procedure.

Another man laughs at them. He calls them all idiots. He says, "You listen to these guys and they'll kill you. But I can save you. I am one of the best heart surgeons in the world- not to mention I am also the best looking!" But he really is a fantastic heart surgeon- even if he is arrogant.

Both the first group and the last man are arrogant. But which one can really save your life? Which ones stand the best chance of butchering you?

Arrogance by itself is not good- but it becomes DEADLY when coupled with ignorance.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Anecdote:

You need heart surgery NOW. If you don't have it within the next half hour you are going to die. You are at a camp in the wilderness of Alaska a good six hour hike from the nearest hospital.

In the camp with you are about twenty five people. In that group there are 5 people who claim to know what is wrong with you and claim to be able to cut open your chest and fix the problem. The problem is that not one of them has been trained to do so. Each of them have their claim as to why they are certain they can perform the procedure. Two of them say they've seen it done dozens of times on TV. One of them says he has read The Encyclopedia of Medicine. The other two claim God speaks to them and told them that they could do it and that they will listen to the still small voice of God within them for instructions throughout the procedure.

Another man laughs at them. He calls them all idiots. He says, "You listen to these guys and they'll kill you. But I can save you. I am one of the best heart surgeons in the world- not to mention I am also the best looking!" But he really is a fantastic heart surgeon- even if he is arrogant.

Both the first group and the last man are arrogant. But which one can really save your life? Which ones stand the best chance of butchering you?

Arrogance by itself is not good- but it becomes DEADLY when coupled with ignorance.

:laugh: This scenario would be an utter non-issue if you were to simply drink your highly tannic red wines or drink your pint of Quality Belgian-monk-made micro-brews daily :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Oldtimer]

Luke, I'm just a layman who has a long ways to go to become educated in the word of God. I am ignorant of many topics discussed here in this forum. Awareness of just how much I have to learn is one of the reasons that I come here.

Read part of the thread on drinking beer.

"very LOW Bible IQ who do not understand how to interpret different genres of biblical literature will attempt to argue"

"stupidity that so many Christians promote"

"So then don't drink in front of stupid Christians- because that is EXACTLY what Paul meant by weaker brother- dumb Christians. He said there are two types of people along these lines- those that "have knowledge" and the "weaker brothers"."

"Sillyness."



Now, for my uninformed opinion, based on your use of terms such as "dumb Christians", "stupid Christians" when others have differing viewpoints. No, second though, my words are meaningless, due to my own ignorance. I'll use words from others, instead.

Matthew 5:22 HCSB
But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Fool!’ will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, ‘You moron!’ will be subject to hellfire.

KJB
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Raca - vain, empty, worthless. Jews used it as a word of comtempt. Derived from a root word meaning spit. (dictionary.reference.com) While fool in the same passage means downright wicked and reprobate person. (biblestudy tools.com)

NASB
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Easy to Read Version
But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Wycliffe
But I say to you, that each man that is wroth to his brother, shall be guilty to doom; and he that saith to his brother, Fie! shall be guilty to the council; but he that saith Fool, shall be guilty to the fire of hell. [But I say to you, that ever-each that is wroth to his brother, shall be guilty of doom; forsooth he that shall say to his brother, Raca, that is, a word of scorn, shall be guilty of council; soothly he that shall say, Fool, that is, a word of despising, shall be guilty of the fire of hell.]

Fool - http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,fool
4. A weak christian; a godly person who has much remaining sin and unbelief.

Ignorance -http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,ignorant - especially this: "1.Resulting from ignorance; foolish; silly."

Arrogance: http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,arrogance
The act or quality of taking much upon one's self; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of rank, dignity, estimation or power, or which exalts the worth or importance of the person to an undue degree; proud contempt of others; conceitedness; presumption.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, I'm just a layman who has a long ways to go to become educated in the word of God. I am ignorant of many topics discussed here in this forum. Awareness of just how much I have to learn is one of the reasons that I come here.

Read part of the thread on drinking beer.

"very LOW Bible IQ who do not understand how to interpret different genres of biblical literature will attempt to argue"

"stupidity that so many Christians promote"

"So then don't drink in front of stupid Christians- because that is EXACTLY what Paul meant by weaker brother- dumb Christians. He said there are two types of people along these lines- those that "have knowledge" and the "weaker brothers"."

"Sillyness."



Now, for my uninformed opinion, based on your use of terms such as "dumb Christians", "stupid Christians" when others have differing viewpoints. No, second though, my words are meaningless, due to my own ignorance. I'll use words from others, instead.

Matthew 5:22 HCSB
But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Fool!’ will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, ‘You moron!’ will be subject to hellfire.

KJB
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Raca - vain, empty, worthless. Jews used it as a word of comtempt. Derived from a root word meaning spit. (dictionary.reference.com) While fool in the same passage means downright wicked and reprobate person. (biblestudy tools.com)

NASB
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Easy to Read Version
But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Wycliffe
But I say to you, that each man that is wroth to his brother, shall be guilty to doom; and he that saith to his brother, Fie! shall be guilty to the council; but he that saith Fool, shall be guilty to the fire of hell. [But I say to you, that ever-each that is wroth to his brother, shall be guilty of doom; forsooth he that shall say to his brother, Raca, that is, a word of scorn, shall be guilty of council; soothly he that shall say, Fool, that is, a word of despising, shall be guilty of the fire of hell.]

Fool - http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,fool
4. A weak christian; a godly person who has much remaining sin and unbelief.

Ignorance -http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,ignorant - especially this: "1.Resulting from ignorance; foolish; silly."

Arrogance: http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,arrogance
The act or quality of taking much upon one's self; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of rank, dignity, estimation or power, or which exalts the worth or importance of the person to an undue degree; proud contempt of others; conceitedness; presumption.

The idea of calling one a fool has to do with hatred towards a brother and it is just one of many dozens of things that Jesus said is enough to send you to hell. The point Jesus is making in that text is that "our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees." He is showing our need of a Savior because we have all hated a brother before; we have all called someone a fool in hatred.

The idea is not that you should never call someone a fool. Jesus does this himself. Paul does it. Other Bible men do it. And when they do it they are not violating this principle that Jesus talks about in this text.

You probably don't have a problem calling people like Fred Phelps "foolish".

You probably have often said something like "Joe Biden's an idiot."

That is not necessarily a violation of what Christ is saying here.


But, respectfully, you highjack this thread by totally ignoring the OP and pulling quotes from altogether different threads.

How about addressing the OP and if you want me to give an account to you for why I employed those statements, how about aksing me on the threads where I said them?

I really would like to know your thoughts about the OP of this thread.

 

[Luke2427]

Anecdote:

You need heart surgery NOW. If you don't have it within the next half hour you are going to die. You are at a camp in the wilderness of Alaska a good six hour hike from the nearest hospital.

In the camp with you are about twenty five people. In that group there are 5 people who claim to know what is wrong with you and claim to be able to cut open your chest and fix the problem. The problem is that not one of them has been trained to do so. Each of them have their claim as to why they are certain they can perform the procedure. Two of them say they've seen it done dozens of times on TV. One of them says he has read The Encyclopedia of Medicine. The other two claim God speaks to them and told them that they could do it and that they will listen to the still small voice of God within them for instructions throughout the procedure.

Another man laughs at them. He calls them all idiots. He says, "You listen to these guys and they'll kill you. But I can save you. I am one of the best heart surgeons in the world- not to mention I am also the best looking!" But he really is a fantastic heart surgeon- even if he is arrogant.

Both the first group and the last man are arrogant. But which one can really save your life? Which ones stand the best chance of butchering you?

Arrogance by itself is not good- but it becomes DEADLY when coupled with ignorance.

I am surprised that we have no takers yet.

 

[Gina B]

I am surprised that we have no takers yet.

We all chose to go hug porcupines instead. Their points make so much more sense and are less painful to deal with. :tongue3:

 

[Luke2427]

We all chose to go hug porcupines instead. Their points make so much more sense and are less painful to deal with. :tongue3:

I think that is partially true.

But the pain is the result of realizing how true the OP is about you, I think.

 

[preachinjesus]

Extreme examples usually don't lend themselves to proper responses. In the OP the situation is set up in such a way that it begs the question and response.

I would say, in using a less extreme example, it depends on the context.

 

[Luke2427]

Extreme examples usually don't lend themselves to proper responses. In the OP the situation is set up in such a way that it begs the question and response.

I would say, in using a less extreme example, it depends on the context.

First of all you have to prove the extremity of the anecdote.

You can not. And let me tell you one reason that you cannot. Because it is not extreme. It is not unreasonable to think that such a thing happens VERY OFTEN.

And it does not beg the question.

 

[blackbird]

Anecdote:

You need heart surgery NOW. If you don't have it within the next half hour you are going to die. You are at a camp in the wilderness of Alaska a good six hour hike from the nearest hospital.

In the camp with you are about twenty five people. In that group there are 5 people who claim to know what is wrong with you and claim to be able to cut open your chest and fix the problem. The problem is that not one of them has been trained to do so. Each of them have their claim as to why they are certain they can perform the procedure. Two of them say they've seen it done dozens of times on TV. One of them says he has read The Encyclopedia of Medicine. The other two claim God speaks to them and told them that they could do it and that they will listen to the still small voice of God within them for instructions throughout the procedure.

Another man laughs at them. He calls them all idiots. He says, "You listen to these guys and they'll kill you. But I can save you. I am one of the best heart surgeons in the world- not to mention I am also the best looking!" But he really is a fantastic heart surgeon- even if he is arrogant.

Both the first group and the last man are arrogant. But which one can really save your life? Which ones stand the best chance of butchering you?

Arrogance by itself is not good- but it becomes DEADLY when coupled with ignorance.

The above is a trick question------see??---according to Luke one stands a 33% greater chance of survival if consuming just a pint of beer a day----well---give the fella in the wilderness a beer----and he will then have a 33% greater chance of making it to the hospital for that surgery on his ticker!!!:type:

 

[Luke2427]

The above is a trick question------see??---according to Luke one stands a 33% greater chance of survival if consuming just a pint of beer a day----well---give the fella in the wilderness a beer----and he will then have a 33% greater chance of making it to the hospital for that surgery on his ticker!!!:type:

That's true!

Good point!

 

[Salty]

I would pray for a plane to land