Ilinois Student Gets Detention for Hugging

OK, then.

Well, i would offer you a hug, but you might have me arrested.

 

I assume you would Jesus as from hell too. He regularly hugged people and had great compassiuon on them. It is impossible to have great compassion and not touch people.

The reason I teach today is because I had teachers who cared unlike the hell on earth home I grew up in and unlike the coldness you advocate.

Now compare your words with the actions of Jesus and you wil quickly see a stark contrast.

The same thing you advocate is agreement with the prison system.

 

Why would I have you arrested? We aren't talking about something illegal here. And I don't have a problem with a hugging a man. I do it routinely.

 

So you can show PDA in the public just not at a school. I wonder if my daughter should have been expelled from school because she often gave me and my wife hugs in front of her friends. She even does that today in front of her friends.

Thankfully she does not go to a school such as you advocate.

Teachers and students at times can reach kids while their families are like hell on earth. Some of those families attend local churches too.

 

This makes no sense.

Can you please give us a some evidence from Scripture for this "regular" practice of his? I am trying to think of one place where Scripture tells us that Jesus hugged. I can't think of one, but perhaps I am missing something. I haven't read the gospels for a couple of months now.

I am not sure where you are getting your definition of compassion from. In my life, most of the people who have shown me compassion have never touched me. In most cases in Scripture, compassion is never connected with hugging. Compassion is far different than that.

But even at that, I have no problem with hugging to show compassion. I believe that at times, physical touch is very important to encourage or comfort someone. If you have read this conversation, you can tell that this has nothing to do with the conversation. This conversation is about a school rule against students hugging one another on school grounds or at school functions.

If you want to talk about something else, feel free to start a new thread about it.

I am not sure where you think I advocated the "hell on earth" home you grew up in or coldness. I would be interested to see what you are referring to.

BTW, I would refrain from minimizing hell by comparing it to anything on earth. Jesus (whom you have already invoked for support) rejected the idea that hell was like anything on earth, regardless of how bad it is. That's why he said, Don't fear those who can kill the body (earthly life) but the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell (Matt 10:28). His point is that one is incomparable to the other.

I am not sure of any actions of Jesus that would encourage teenagers to hug each other in a school. Do you have something in mind I can look at to make this comparison you suggest?

What? This makes no sense either. I have no idea how to respond to something like this. What does it even mean?

 

Depends on who you are, who the other person is, and when you are doing it. If you show PDA to my wife anywhere, it will be a problem. If you show too much PDA with your wife in public, it will be a problem. So this simplistic response of yours really doesn't help further the conversation.

I am not sure that the rule in question addresses students hugging their parents. That certainly is not what I have been addressing.

So you are against schools that provide a good atmosphere for education, a serious consideration of sexual purity, and a healthy respect for authority? Can you tell me why you disagree with that?

I totally agree. I fail to see how that is relevant to this conversation though.

Have you actually read this thread thoughtfully? Your comments don't seem to address what I have actually been saying.

 

sorry...let me rephrase:

[humor] OK, then.

Well, i would offer you a hug, but you might have me arrested.

[/humor]

wow...I thought the smiley would convey the joke.

 

So are you saying that it is okay on school grounds for the child to hug a parent but not another friend?

Schools should be the greatest example of all right things including love and respect. The adminstrators of that school should all be fired for being so stupid. An idiot for an administrator is not an example of a leader but more of an example of a tyrant.

The greatest example of love was found in Christ. I see no example in Him that ever advocated distance and a lack of affection for those he loved.

A great example of what you are talking about is when my daughter was about three she wanted to show us how to give "Eskimo kisses" to a neighbor boy. The dad came unglued while my wife and I laughed. He got angry at his two year old son as if to say the son had sexual things in mind. It clearly showed me what the dad was thinking.

It doesn't take half of a brain to day to figure out that as Americans we are much less affectionate and more crime ridden today then we were just a generation ago. I can remember the days when teachers hugged their students. Today teachers are afraid that if they do, the student or parent may sue them. We have parents who are babies and have little or no discipline raising babies. We have an increasing number of parents who never teach their childen to grow up. There is an increasing number of college students who graduate and then return home to mom and dad.

You have also got to know that it is a proven fact that the greatest number of tyrants and offenders of domestic violence is found in legalistic churches.

 

Pastor Larry

I know you stated "If you want to talk about something else, then start a new thread" but I don't want to start a new thread, just type one post to you. It is related. FTR,, I don't agree with the PDA rule now, since someone brought up the fact that same sex couples could be going a bit too far regarding public affection. This is happening in my son's high school. Anyways, back to what I wanted to talk about


I believe I understand where you are coming from.

Here is a conversation between us below.

In the above conversation, I commented that you had replaced the word hug repeatidly with "embrace" and stated “I guess that is how it feels to you, more intimate than a hug” and I added "Ok" because it certainly is ok.

The word embrace indicates a more sensualized "hug", usually known as a "full on hug" which lingers longer. This is why romance novels, and erotic stories often use the term embrace. A hug can also be an embrace.

I believe you do take it very seriously.

In your first quote, first sentence, you state that you have no problem with people embracing.

Yet in a later quote, you state the opposite when talking about your children. Maybe you meant in the context of in school when there is a PDA rule present. Doesn't matter, onto the point.

Suddenly the same word, (embrace) the same act, becomes sexualized due to the identity of the recipient (your child). This can send really mixed signals to children, messing them up. I have a strong feeling this occurs in your house due to your posts. Especially when you were defending innocent hugging (or embracing) between your wife and other people, even describing it as brief. Sorry for this, it's not meant to embarrass you.

Keep in mind, even if a hug might feel more sensual to you, it doesn’t mean everyone responds this way. There is nothing wrong with it, we are all different. Yet if you are not aware of it, you may pass it on to your children. Maybe be very careful the way you subconsciously/consciously interpret things.

Foster Parent classes taught us a lot. The foster kids we had only confirmed this as true, in my mind.

Children need to be affectionate with others, both sexes, young and old, and hugging is a safe way to do that. Even if it causes arousal, that doesn't matter, it is still needed. When we had a 10 year old foster girl, I would ask if I could hug her and tell her it was ok to say no. Once, she said no. I didn't ask for a while, but she looked like she missed it so then we discussed it. I told her it was ok how she felt when I hugged her, but it was still good to hug if she still wanted to. Nothing bad would happen. So she did, and eventually those feelings lessened and it became more wholesome. A load was lifted. I could tell by the way she looked at me. We only had her for about three months when she reunified with Mom.

If the only hugging and touching received is given by family members, they are not getting what they need. They are getting mixed signals that the same act of hugging suddenly becomes “dirty” or sexualized when it is received by a friend, girlfriend or boyfriend. Sadly, it could have been felt as a wholesome, loving hug which fulfills their needs. When their needs are fulfilled, then they are at less risk for sexual sin.

I don't care how much Dad, Mom, grandma, Grandpa, the Pastor etc.. hugs. It shouldn't be taught as "wrong".

If you discourage your children from feeling loving, wholesome affection (hugging) by both sexes due to your fears of maintaining sexual purity, well imo, you will likely be producing the opposite. Actually placing your children at greater risk.

Your children’s future spouse will appreciate their ability to make love to them, enjoying Gods gift to the fullest, instead of it being perverted in a manner it was not intended for.

If you want your kids to maintain purity, allow them to feel wholesome hugging from both sexes. Then this automatic wholesome feeling will be normal for them.

Don’t make every hug they receive for the rest of their life feel like “an embrace” or feel sensual because they were never allowed to learn and feel affection in a wholesome manner as a child. That may be a curse which needs broken.

I am done now, thanks for listening

 

Of course, and how much would depend on the culture. A simple hug is not too much that is unless you PDA is unacceptable in another country. Should we advocate Burkas for women too?

Everywhere kids go they see people hugging each other. They see it at a football game when a touchdown is scored. Apparently a kid can hug their friend outside of school, in church, at home, and in the grocery store. But not at school? A student can leave their school as a minor and then show up to college and hug their friend. Make sense? Only to a cold, heartless, idiot that does not know how to love anyone.

It is permissible for me to hug my friends on a college campus but kids cannot on a elementary school campus. Make sense?

 

If anyone has read Josh McDowell's book Right From Wrong would know that he wrote that 25% of the students in youth groups in churches are promiscuous with one another. Kids may not be hugging at school but they are certainly promiscuous within their youth group at church.

 

That sounds correct. That also sounds like an interesting book, maybe I'll check it out on ebay.

All we can do as role models is encourage them to become or remain pure, listen to them, remain non-jugemental while showing them the Lord's will for their life.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Who better to hug a son and daughter than the parents first and often?

Many a girl has gotten into trouble by feeling loved by a young man simply because she never knew what real love felt like.

My wife and I have spent about the last year with a lady who does not know what real love looks and feels like. She is starved for love. We have spent a great deal of time showing her and talking with her about what real love is. She never experienced what real love is in her family.

Your comments remind me of the book Love Is A Feeling To Be Learned by Walter Trobisch.

 

Really, there is a book about it? I don't know why I am surprised. We learned this kind of stuff in 100 hours of Foster Parent classes. Weird thing is, during our foster classes, my Doctor & his wife were becoming our best friends. I always wanted to hug him, or lay with him really bad, he felt like a father, and is of that age (he's 60)
One day he is laying on my couch and says, "hey come and lay with me". I thought he was kidding so I said "yeah you will get more than you bargained for" (naughty joke) Then he asked again, saying "just try it once" so I did. I hoped he wouldn't hit on me, I knew he wouldn't but I was still scared to death he would. He didn't, it was wonderful. Incredible. No words to describe it. Then I was afraid I was going to cry, but luckily, never did. Got up about 10 minutes later when a commercial came on, and surprisingly, it wasn't awkward. We are still very close friends. He's a Christian. Maybe you could try something like that with that lady if you feel close enough to her.

 

It just wasn't very funny. It was confusing to the issue because it was a "joke" based on something that wasn't true.

 

Yes, I would say that.

I think the church and home should be. The school is a place of learning and education.

A little while ago you were saying that Christ regularly hugged people, yet when asked for support, it seems you have bailed out. Do you have any evidence of Christ hugging people, much less regularly? Or were you just making that up.

I don't see Christ ever advocating distance or lack of affection for those he loved. Which is why I don't advocate that. I wish you would interact with what I have said rather than addressing things I don't believe.

And you think that is because we don't hug each other? I think it is for entirely different reasons.

Which is why a no hugging rule makes sense. A teacher would bea fool to hug a student.

All great problems that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Where is the proof of this? Or will this proof go the way of the proof about Jesus hugging people?

 

Hug and embrace are interchangeable words. You can look it up here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=embrace

An embrace is not more intimate than a hug to me.

Um, no.

It doesn't embarrass me in the least. I think it is utter nonsense. A hug is not sexualized. I can't imagine what in the world you are thinking here. I hug my son routinely all throughout the day. I still hug my dad and I am 39 and he his 70. I hug my brother who is 30, my sister who is 41. So there is no confusion for me about this issue.

No. You need better foster parenting classes. One of the great problems we have in our society is that love is connected with the physical. And so a young girl who wants to feel love will turn to sex because she has been taught that love is physical. And when the guy says, "If you love me you would," she buys into it because she has not been taught differently.

You see, I think it does matter. This is patently unbiblical to say that arousing sexual passion in someone who cannot fulfill them is doesn't matter.

Again, just totally without biblical or social merit.

With the exception of the pastor, I would agree.

Again, just plain nonsense. People who never hug prior to marriage will never become sexually active. That is so patently obvious, it should not have to be said, but it does.

Now, that alone is not a reason entirely not to do it, but let's not insult the intelligence of the good people here with these kinds of arguments.

Studies do show that promiscuous girls have often grown up in homes without loving fathers, and they went elsewhere to find that affection. All due, in part, to this idea that love must involve hugging or it isn't love. Notice in your above paragraph how you define "loving, wholesome affection" as "hugging." I think that has no merit.

But not because they hug everyone who anyone. They will appreciate it because they have maintained sexual purity, and didn't misuse it by hugging others.

There are some severe biblical and social problems in your arguments here. They need some serious consideration.

When we teach people that love automatically involves physical affection, we are headed down the road of sexual impurity. We need to get away from that definition of love. We need a more biblical one.

 

Yes, to some degree it does, but to another degree it doesn't. Furthermore, we should not let culture define the way we live but the Bible. And you have yet to show a biblical case for this hugging you are advocating. You said Jesus regularly did it, but then you bailed out when asked for support.

Of course not, but we could stand a good helping of biblical modesty these days.

Really?

Yes, it does to everyone but a cold, heartless, idiot that does not know how to love anyone.

I don't recommend hugging on college campuses either. Again, I just see no need for it.

 

BTW, the book title "Love is a Feeling to be Learned," is a misleading title. It has no biblical merit. Love is an act, not a feeling. When the Bible says that God loves us, it has nothing to do with feelings but acts.

The sooner we get away from these unbiblical notions of love, the better we will be.

 

I believe a simple hug is sexualized to you Pastor Larry. We will have to agree to disagree.

That is how God created us, it is connected. This is why it is natural to pro-create. But love in itself, as you have said, does not necessarily involve hugging or physical affection. The bible defines love for us- Love is patient, love is kind, etc.. You are correct, it doesn't need to be connected with the physical. Yet all people still need wholesome physical touch, which includes hugging or laying together, just like it is natural to want to procreate.

I disagree. Some people become aroused at everything, some are like this 24/7 without any touch. Not all feelings of arousal involve"sexual passion" and are often not geared at the person who sparked them.

Point is, it was meant in the context of children hugging others, not in a context of the opposite sex alone together. The situations differ. Our son is 16, has a job, yet no females are allowed to ride in the car with him. It's against the law, and he has been taught to remain in groups to maintain purity.

So it is wrong for your teenager to hug her Pastor, or am I misunderstanding? I think I am misunderstanding since you are a Pastor, and you find it ok to hug others in the church. Although maybe not. I had to instill a no-hugging rule in our youth group, the girls would sometimes give me some pretty interesting *hugs*. I will hug the boys, never had any problems there. Maybe you have experienced something similar.

Yes, it's a good precaution, yet it may have repercussions. If they remain too reserved, and do not allow a portion of their real selves be known prior to marriage, they may find they aren't as compatible as they thought. Being playful allows them to get to know one another.
The woman may have a a surprise coming when she finds out all he wants to do all day is have sex. When if they just hugged prior to marriage, and he seemed "too affectionate" each time, couldn't just offer her a wholesome hug, then she would know it may be good to break it off. Just one example. Imho, it's a good precaution to hug in public, never private prior to the marriage.

Misuse it? Hugging in and of itself is not automatically breaking sexual purity.

Your point of no hugging to maintain purity does fly (of course) But imo, I believe it could have later reprocussions which could lead to divorce.

I agree yet there is a balance. Society overly equates love with physical affection in between people of opposite genders because we are wired that way, but not usually to that extent. People can be in love without any physical contact.