I'll cut U.S. dependence on oil, pledges Bush

That is a slanderous remark. Oil companies do not steal from the American people. And I should know as my dad worked for an oil company for over 30 years, I worked for an oil company for 3 summers while attending college, and I have worked for an oil company for almost 28 years since graduating from college. So before you accuse me of stealing from the American people you had best have facts to present first.

As the oil industry has clothed, housed, and fed me for all of my 50 years as far as I am concerned when someone slanders the oil industry he is slandering me. </font>[/QUOTE]Hugh Hefner can make exactly the same claim for pornography, does that make it sacred, like you seem to view your job?

I do not in the least begrudge the current levels of profits the oil companies are enjoying.

 

Poncho, you are good at taking a very small truth and blowing it into a grandious indictment. One of the best.

 

Why, thank you for the compliment Hillclimber I believe that even knowing of little bit of the truth is better than living in total denial.

 

I don't live in total denial, but have found that my negatives concerning the GWB administration are amply covered by you and your buddies, relieving me of the need for venting. I guess I can thank you for that.

 

No, the "oil companies" aren't "stealing" from the American people! That's a lie! Stealing would mean they're taking your money and giving you nothing or less for it's value. That's not at all the case! Prices are set by supply and demand. That economic system is capitalism. Gasoline - the best known product made from crude oil - is still a bargain in this country even at its highest prices. It's price has gone up but, relatively to cost of living, it's still a good deal.

The profit margin for many parts of the oil business is not that great and there's a whole lot of risk involved in the business. Yes, some people have become very rich in the business but others have lost a lot. Refining, for example, is a business that operates on variable margins and when the margin is small it can quickly kill an enterprise no matter how well they run the business. They have to honor their contracts and keep supplying the demand. Few businesses - especially small ones - can afford to be in the industry especially with the intense amount of capital required even for environmental controls alone. Without the opportunity - not guarantee - to make lots of money few would bother with the risks. That's what drives capitalism. Let's try more socialism or even communism as an alternative and see how unproductive business and government can become.

A large part of the price of gasoline is tax - presumably for highways - that your government keeps spending on new, improved, and maintained roads so you can drive your car wherever you want whenever you want. The citizens want those roads and they want their cars. They want bigger and faster freeways with no delays. Do you want to lower the price of gasoline? Cut the demand! Cut the cost of roads! Stop building so many roads and build alternatives instead. Give up some flexibility to go wherever you want when you want.

A whole lot of Americans make a very reasonable living off the "oil" business when you consider all the petrochemical processes related to it and all the many products made by them. Do you remember the "oil" industry bust of the 1980's? Do you remember all the people who had to walk away from their homes because they lost their good jobs in the industry? The "oil business" has in fact put a lot of money in the average worker's pockets, bread on their tables, roofs over their heads, and clothes on their backs. The "oil" industry includes the exploration, production, transportation, and distribution of natural gas. Do you want to turn off your heat for a while so the price will go down? We use disposable plastic materials in an ever increasing number of products and they're made from crude oil and natural gas. Do you want to stop using those conveniences to help cut the demand for the raw materials?

In any industry - entertainment included - a few people make a disproportionate amount of money. It doesn't seem fair to those making much less but if it's not illegal it's not a problem for the government to solve but rather the marketplace. What those making less don't often see is what it actually takes to make more money. It's work - not necessarily back breaking work - but real hard high risk work with a very high level of responsibility. Most people can't do it but they like complaining about the benefits those that can get from it. The business of government is not to make rich men poor or poor men rich. We do have antitrust laws to prevent monopolistic practices that would override supply and demand by controlling both sides of the equation. If that happens, then it's time for the government to step in and protect its citizens. But, it's not happening because there's plenty of competition in the business.

 

A "few?"

Bear in mind that there are a few major players in the petroleum industry. Let's take a look at how some of them fared in 2005:

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

How about the smaller players?
What about ConocoPhillips?

[Link]

How about Sunoco?

[Link]

Or how about Amerada Hess?

[Link]

How about Petroleum Services - how did Halliburton do?

[Link]

How about refining and/or distribution? How about Valero, for example?

[Link]

Wow.........

BiR

 

A "few?"

Bear in mind that there are a few major players in the petroleum industry. Let's take a look at how some of them fared in 2005:

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

How about the smaller players?
What about ConocoPhillips?

[Link]

How about Sunoco?

[Link]

Or how about Amerada Hess?

[Link]

How about Petroleum Services - how did Halliburton do?

[Link]

How about refining and/or distribution? How about Valero, for example?

[Link]

Wow.........

BiR </font>[/QUOTE]While I agree with your premise, I think we as consumers deserve a large part of the blame. The actual margins for these companies have not gone up, but their profits have. This is because we continue to use gas at record breaking rates and buy larger and larger vehicles. If we stopped buying they would have to invest in new technologies or fail.

 

Oh? You'll be really upset with me when the globalists install Hillary as Queen of the world then cuz I plan on raising the roof with even more facts of her treason than Dubya's!!

But then the globalists will probably stage another terror attack by that time and you'll be licking her boots too. Oh, save me Hillary, save me!

 

All you've done is reported the recent success of some of the major oil business! So what? Did these business provide goods and services that people wanted, needed, and were willing to pay for? What's wrong with that?

Is success in business - any legitimate business - a bad thing? Do you start a business to make the least you can or the most you can? It is implied that those who make lot's of money must have stolen it from others? Is it wrong to make money?

Why don't we all lobby for pay cuts of our salaries and profit caps on our little businesses? Why don't we sell what we make for the least possible amount?

Should profits be taken away from those who earn them and given to those who haven't so they too can be "profitable"?

What do you want - capitalism, socialism, or communism?

What do these business do with their earnings? Do they reinvest them? Do they generate the exchange or more goods and services? Do they pay out earnings to their owners who's investments provided the capital by which to make the profits?

What do you want? Do you want government or the market to control prices? Do you want opportunity to drive business investments or do you want government limits as to what are "fair" profits with all "excess" forfeited to the government to be redistributed to those "more deserving"?

 

Oh? You'll be really upset with me when the globalists install Hillary as Queen of the world then cuz I plan on raising the roof with even more facts of her treason than Dubya's!!

But then the globalists will probably stage another terror attack by that time and you'll be licking her boots too. Oh, save me Hillary, save me! </font>[/QUOTE] Ha Ha, I'll probably agree with you on hillary, but I seriously doubt she can withstand the truth of her last presidency and lifes walk in the upcoming campaign.

 

Wow! Dragoon nothing about how we subsidize the
oil companies...perhaps apple polisher moniker is in order.

Are you in favor of subsidizing the oil companies?

Nothing is going to be purely anything the point is to to serve the american people and give them a hand up and tools for success not give our tax
dollars to oil companies who have the money to
drill from their own profits...period.

 

Yep, you're right, Dragoon68: no cause for concern here. This is substantially more than success of some. In many cases, it was the most money they have made in their corporate histories.

I never made any reference to this discussion, did I?

Again, I never made any reference to these issues either, did I?

I simply spoke to you comments about "a few."
Didn't I?

Regards anyway,
BiR

 

The oil industry makes it's money from it's own investments and by the goods and services it sells to consumers who willing buy them. The government doesn't fund it. It does however tax the profits both of the companies and again of its owners.

Again, it isn't the business of government to make rich men poor or poor men rich. It purpose is to "serve the people" by protecting their freedom to become either rich or poor by the merits of their own work according to the good or bad fortune of the times.

 

Do you want the government to take the oil companies profits and redistribute them?

Do you want the government to impose price controls on the goods and services they provide?

Do you want the government to impose profit controls?

What do you want - capitalism, socialism, or communism?

 

Do you want the government to take the oil companies profits and redistribute them?

If the government did this, it will find that capital is extremely mobile, and will find other places to invest (like overseas, where regulation and taxation is less). I'd hate to even begin to predict the price of gasoline, if that happened.
Then, of course, it will be "Bush's fault," requiring even more government intervention.

 

Exactly! This does bring up an important - but not singular - cause of the problems we're facing. That being the heavy burden put upon American business via taxation and regulation that's driven some to set up headquarters in other countries with more favorable terms.

 

You didn't answer my questions, did you?
Or are you answering my questions with questions?

BiR

 

You didn't answer my questions either, did you?

 

You didn't answer my questions either, did you? </font>[/QUOTE]So, is that a no? Once again, you answered my question with a question.

Let me try again:
I didn't mention any of those topics you introduced, did I?

This is a simple yes/no question, Dragoon68: I am unsure as to why you are having such difficulty with it. Again, it's a yes/no question.

BiR

 

You're loosing your place BiR! There's no difficulty here on my end on this one! I understand you disagree with the points I made. It's okay to disagree.

You avoid the answers because your deep down preference is for socialism verses capitalism. It irks you that some "big business" is making money and you want the government to stop them, collect their profits, and redistribute them.

That's it, isn't it?