Illegals and the church

[Salty]

In another thread on General Baptist discussions, (illegals immigrants and the church ) PreachinJesus (supposedly ) quoted Mexdeaf as saying
"many of our immigration rules are both archane and prejudicial towards hispanic populations. This is politics thing and I don't want to get too far into it without permission. Suffice to say there is more than meets the eye with current immigration laws."

If you look at post 12 of the above link, Mexdeaf said "Sadly a lot of the problems are a result of TERRIBLE immigration laws." He did NOT say the laws are prejudicial towards hispanic populations.!

That is the crux of this thread - what is the political implications. I like what Tim said "Don't ask, don't tell" ( unless the church is offering a paid job)

It may appear that the US is prejudicial toward's Hispanic, but that is mainly the population below the border.

Actually, my political view is:
1. I have no problem who comes into the country - other then criminals, contagious disease, ect.
2. I have no problem if an alien takes a job - even if it takes an "American job" - whatever that is.
3. I do have a problem when a foreign comes into the county, delivers a child, and the baby is an automatic US Citizen. I believe at least on parent should be a US citizen.
4. ANY GOVERNMENT assistance program should NOT be eligible to any non-citizen. Churches and social agcy should be allowed to serve whomever they please.

Salty

seems like I have a couple of more items, but my brain is gong on an extended Mt Dew break.

 

[Salty]

did you notice no one responded, wonder why

 

[targus]

I have no problem who comes into the country - other then criminals, contagious disease, ect.

They should at least have to sign the guestbook on the way in though. :laugh:

 

[matt wade]

I'm the son of an immigrant, so maybe I'm a bit biased here.

If people want to come to this country, they need to go through the legal process to do so. Why do people believe that the same people that break our law to enter the country will uphold any other laws? By entering our country illegally, they are criminals. So, Salty, I guess that means you should have a problem with all illegal aliens!

 

[donnA]

I don't care what country they come from, they need to be legal or arrested as the criminals they are.

 

[Trotter]

If people want to come to this country, they need to go through the legal process to do so. Why do people believe that the same people that break our law to enter the country will uphold any other laws? By entering our country illegally, they are criminals.

My thoughts exactly. I am for anyone who comes here through the legal channels. If you came illegally you should be sent back to where you came from... and I have no qualms about putting your sorry butt in a catapult and flinging you back across the river. Or at least you should have to help pay for your own deportation.

 

[billwald]

A criminal is someone who has been convicted of a crime. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor is not a criminal else everyone who has gotten a traffic ticket is a criminal.

Being an undocumented alien is a misdemeanor, not a crime.

 

[Trotter]

Crime = breaking the law, misdemeanor or whatever.

Sorry, Bill. If you break a law you are a criminal and entering the country illegally is breaking the law (hence the "illegal" part). Trying to hide behind some idiotic reasoning that illegal aliens are only guilty of a midemeanor is just loopy. If they are here illegally they are breaking the law.

 

[matt wade]

You'll have to forgive billwald. He's used to being in Unions where they break the law all the time and act like they aren't criminals.

 

[Steven2006]

The entire situation is a mess.

It is obvious to most that to reward someone who comes here illegally by then granting them citizenship is not only a poor immigration policy, but unfair to all of those that wait years trying to enter this county legally.

On the other-hand for years this country has basically looked the other way and benefited from the cheap labor these people have been providing. There are entire industries that have come to count on this form of inexpensive labor for their financial survival.

We have families that have established some genuine roots in many communities in our county, trying to do what is best for their families, raising children who are citizens themselves having been born here. These children have spent their entire lives growing up and being schooled here.

One thing is certain until this county has a system in place that prevents the easy entry of illegals why uproot these families that have basically been here with a wink from our government for all these years? They would only be quickly replaced by other illegals, what benefit would that be for anyone?

It would probably take the wisdom of Solomon to come up with a fair and wise solution to best deal with the problem that we currently have created by the lack of a successful policy

This country probably needs to take one big mulligan, and then move forward with a solid immigration policy in place.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

They didn't cross the boarder. The boarder crossed them. I heard that on a movie somewhere. I kind a liked it.
The fact is we would have explosive inflation on our grocery bills if it were not for illegal immigrants. In fact, our country economy would suffer greatly if laws were passed to minimize illegal immigration. The facts are these long before the west was admitted into our union families of Mexicans lived on both sides of the boarder some were successsful others were not. When the boarders were established and if they were adhered too families would have been split up. Mexicans that became americans had a mix of success. For many years the boarder was loosely regulated because of ranchers, farmer, some manufactures, need to hire people "off the books" or cheap labor. So as we became more socialistic problems arise such as how should we pay for their care etc.... yet if we just close the boarders our economy will slide out of control

 

[Revmitchell]

They didn't cross the boarder. The boarder crossed them. I heard that on a movie somewhere. I kind a liked it.
The fact is we would have explosive inflation on our grocery bills if it were not for illegal immigrants. In fact, our country economy would suffer greatly if laws were passed to minimize illegal immigration. The facts are these long before the west was admitted into our union families of Mexicans lived on both sides of the boarder some were successsful others were not. When the boarders were established and if they were adhered too families would have been split up. Mexicans that became americans had a mix of success. For many years the boarder was loosely regulated because of ranchers, farmer, some manufactures, need to hire people "off the books" or cheap labor. So as we became more socialistic problems arise such as how should we pay for their care etc.... yet if we just close the boarders our economy will slide out of control

Give us a break. There are already laws minimizing illegal immigration. They just aren't enforced. Our economy would carry on better without the burden.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Give us a break. There are already laws minimizing illegal immigration. They just aren't enforced. Our economy would carry on better without the burden.

That's not true. You'll end up paying $25 dollars for a single loaf of bread. Not to mention other commodities.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Not true. Programs like welfare & forced minimum wage do more to increase prices. Illegals would not have to be imported if we didn't pay people to sit on their butts and have kids. Also, whatever money we might possibly save by hiring illegals is offset by the money we spend providing them with free emergency room health care.

 

[Revmitchell]

That's not true. You'll end up paying $25 dollars for a single loaf of bread. Not to mention other commodities.

Baloney................I have news for you. I pastored in an area that was 66% illegals because of the groves and the cattle ranches. They don't work for any cheaper than anyone else. That is a myth

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Baloney................I have news for you. I pastored in an area that was 66% illegals because of the groves and the cattle ranches. They don't work for any cheaper than anyone else. That is a myth

did they have employer paid health benefits? did they have HSA? Did they get W2's. Did the employer hold back federal, state, medicare, and social security from their pay checks? Did they get compensated for over time? My family is from California and I know for a fact that they do. Just hang out in he San Joachin valley and find out.

 

[Trotter]

Simple solution: lock down the borders, especially the southern one. And when I say "lock it down" I mean lock it down. The Berlin Wall is a hint of what I am talking about, but beefed up way more. It doesn't have to be a physical wall, but no one, and I mean no one, should be able to cross the border. Put our armed forces there, give the border patrol some real teeth, and make crossing the border a high crime.

Sorry, but I am not a pansy "oh, poor, poor people" kind of guy. I have no problem putting up a concrete wall with machine guns and seismic sensors. For all I know each person trying to cross the border is an enemy operative and would be treated as such. Eventually the people south of the border would get the idea we didn't want them traipsing across our border. Now, with the drug cartels and their wars, we have even more reason to do this.

 

[targus]

They didn't cross the boarder. The boarder crossed them. I heard that on a movie somewhere. I kind a liked it.
The fact is we would have explosive inflation on our grocery bills if it were not for illegal immigrants. In fact, our country economy would suffer greatly if laws were passed to minimize illegal immigration. The facts are these long before the west was admitted into our union families of Mexicans lived on both sides of the boarder some were successsful others were not. When the boarders were established and if they were adhered too families would have been split up. Mexicans that became americans had a mix of success. For many years the boarder was loosely regulated because of ranchers, farmer, some manufactures, need to hire people "off the books" or cheap labor. So as we became more socialistic problems arise such as how should we pay for their care etc.... yet if we just close the boarders our economy will slide out of control

So you are in favor of illegal immigration because they are a source of cheap labor?

You approve of someone exploiting other people if it keeps the price of lettuce lower?

Why stop there? Why not advocate for bringing back slavery?

 

[Revmitchell]

did they have employer paid health benefits?

Nope but then neither do many Americans.

did they have HSA?

See previous answer

Did they get W2's.

Nope but that has nothing to do with working cheaper is in fact is an argument against their being here.

Did the employer hold back federal, state, medicare, and social security from their pay checks?

See previous answer

Did they get compensated for over time?

Nope see first answer. They are contract employees.

My family is from California and I know for a fact that they do. Just hang out in he San Joachin valley and find out.

No you don't

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Salty, Maryland has a terrible border criminal problem, especially in our area, where migrant border criminals make up a large part of the work force (you know, because there are some jobs those Americans sitting in the Unemployment Office just won't do), so this topic has come up before.

Essentially, our view is that if someone is here illegally, that's a sin and we would encourage them to return to their home country and apply for membership the right way.

If their argument is that they cannot earn enough in their home country to live, then we will support them if they need it. But we cannot be a party to their breaking the law.