I'm Afraid This Won't Work

[LadyEagle]

Thanks, Doc! Good job of moderating, BTW!

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by DocCas:
BrianT, there are several threads in this forum to discuss who is a fundamentalist and who should feel free to post on this forum.

I just answered his question. He posted one of my comments, and then asked me my goal. I was telling him the goal of my comments was not to cause the forum to fail, but to understand it better.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
Pastor Bob 63, are you volunteering to moderate?

I asked what the duties of a moderator would be and what kind of time requirements were involved. I have yet to get a response.

I am not against this forum. Read my posts, I am a Fundamental Baptist. My concern is that we will become the laughing stock of the BB because of our inability to get along with each other. We wanted this forum because of our common ground and all we have done since getting it is disagree with each other.

In order for this to work there has to be a "clear presentation" of what a Fundamental Baptist is. It doesn't have to be what we all think it is, or what we believe we are.

The webmaster and the administrators are going to have to come up with a list of prerequisite beliefs that we would have to agree to before we are able to post. I guess this could be done via a poll with the majority ruling. Of course, who would be able to vote in the poll?

 

[Clint Kritzer]

QUOTE] originally posted by PastorBob63: The webmaster and the administrators are going to have to come up with a list of prerequisite beliefs that we would have to agree to before we are able to post. [/QUOTE]

Sir -

I will not presume to speak for the webmaster but I will speak as one of the administrators of this site being called in to this. Please do not read any animosity into this post as none is intended. I simply want to present the facts.

This forum came about as a result of an uproar by a few of the membership on various threads in the theology forum and the general Baptist discussion forum. I will post the links of a few of these threads:

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001639

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001584

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000617

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001044

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001050

Well, that's enough to give you an idea of the flavor the board took last week. This finally crecsendoed a couple days ago when a member actually went so far as to research the webmaster and posted a name, address, and phone number asking people to complain about the liberty allowed the varying shades of Baptist on this site.

I have cited a post by the webmaster many times on this board that gives an idea of the vision that he had in creating this site. When the library forum was first created, it was the first thread I suggested moving there. It's called The Story of the Baptist Board and you can find it at this link: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=000004

It was my hope that BB would allow Baptists from different backgrounds and experiences the opportunity to see over the wall that separates them. This was not an attempt to bring down the wall, but rather an attempt to bring people to a place where they can see over the wall from the privacy of their home (and screen name).

Until this week, that vision had remained intact. There were two parts of the board from which members had been excluded for gender and one forum for the moderators and administrators, but other than that, Baptist had free reign of all parts of this website.

Just an aside here, we have often been asked by members from other denominations what makes us Baptist. Try it yourself. It's not an easy question to answer. The best I could ever come up with was also from a thread on this board in the library called Back to Our Roots. That thread is some good reading. As a brand new member, I started it, enjoyed it and made some good friends on it. It was a search for our common characteristics throughout this faith. You can find it here: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=000001
Toward the end of that thread, Brother Robert Vaughn came up with this list from our conversation:

1. The centrality of Jesus Christ as Lord and the Bible as God's word; including the New Testament as the all-sufficient rule of faith and practice

2. A regenerated church membership

3. The local church is independent and autonomous

4. The concept of baptism of believers (by immersion) as opposed to baptism of infants

5. A non-sacramental understanding of the ordinances, especially baptism and the Lord's supper

6. The separation of church and state; that the state has no right to compel men in matters of conscience (and should, in fact, protect free religious exercise)

7. Soul Liberty - the right of the individual to interpret and believe Scripture as led by the Holy Spirit; and one's right to deal directly with God without human mediation

Well, anyway, I digress.

The Fundamental/Liberal clash on the BB finally came to a head with about a half dozen members (who have never paid a red cent to BE members I might add) DEMANDED a forum that would exclude the half dozen members that they felt were not worthy in some way to have an opinion on the matters being discussed. The webmaster under this pressure created this forum that day and handed it over to those who wanted it so badly.

Some of my fellow administrators may be willing to make a "list of requirements" that would define eligibility to this forum. I, sir, will not. As far as my personal theology is concerned, I suspect that I would fit the definition of a "fundamentalist" but as a God honoring Christian, I will not tell you that you do or don't.

I have witnessed the Fundamental resurgence" and the overcompensating Liberal backlash polarize my own sect, the SBC. I am not interested in it affecting this website to which I contribute so much of my time. Christ told us about the penalties of judgment, Peter told us that we are a Priesthood of Believers, Paul confirmed that I alone am accountable to God upon Judgment Day. I, for one, cherish these ideals. To me they are Biblical principles interconnected and inseparable from the teachings of the New Testament.

One final point as this post is far longer than I care for it to be.

This board receives far more lurkers than it does registered members. Here is a rather secular website's definition of Fundamentalism. I am unable to link you directly so I will quote:

The term "Fundamentalist."
One of the most controversial religious terms in North America is "fundamentalist." Within Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and other faiths, the term is used to refer to the most conservative wing of the religion. Author Karen Armstrong defines them as "embattled forms of spirituality, which have emerged as a response to a perceived crisis" - namely the fear that modernity will erode or even eradicate their faith and morality. That concern is shared by Fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims.

Fundamentalism in Christianity:
In Christianity, Fundamentalism forms the conservative part of Evangelical Christianity, which is itself the conservative wing of Protestant Christianity. Fundamentalist Christians typically believe that the Bible is inspired by God and is inerrant. They reject modern analysis of the Bible as a historical document written by authors who were attempting to promote their own evolving spiritual beliefs. Rather, they view the bible as the Word of God, internally consistent, and free of error.

The term "Fundamentalist" derives from a 1909 publication "The Fundamentals: A testimony to the truth" which proposed five required Christian beliefs for those opposed to the Modernist movement.

Originally a technical theological term, it became commonly used after the "Scopes" trial in Tennessee during the mid 1920s. Dayton, Tennessee in 1925. John Scopes, a high school biology teacher was on trial for contravening the state's Butler Act. It forbade the teaching of "any theory that denies the story of the Divine Creation of man as taught in the Bible, and to teach instead that man has descended from a lower order of animals." 4,5 Although Scopes was found guilty, it was generally felt that he had won a moral victory.

By the late 1930's Christian Fundamentalists had formed a sub-culture and had largely withdrawn from the rest of society. Following major revisions to Roman Catholic beliefs and practices during the Vatican II conferences in the 1960's, the term "fundamentalist" started to be used to refer to Catholics who rejected the changes, and wished to retain traditional beliefs and practices. Thus it became a commonly used word to describe the most conservative groups within Christianity: Protestant and Catholic.

Back in the 1960's many theologians and historians expected that religions would become less conservative and generally weaker with time. That did not happen. Instead, the fundamentalist wings of major world religions, including Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, have grown and become increasingly dedicated to preserving religious tradition. Karen Armstrong has addressed Fundamentalism in Christianity, Islam and Judaism in her book: "The Battle for God." 1

In the U.S., the Fundamentalist-led Moral Majority emerged to challenge social and religious beliefs and practices. Today, Fundamentalists are the most vocal group in opposition to abortion access, equal rights against discrimination and hate crimes for homosexuals, physician assisted suicide, the use of embryonic stem cells for medical research, comprehensive sex-ed classes in public schools, etc.

The Assemblies of God is one Fundamentalist denomination. The Southern Baptist Convention has moved towards fundamentalism in recent years. Bob Jones University, the General Association of Regular Baptists, the Moody Bible Institute and other groups are also Fundamentalist. Among the most generally known Fundamentalist Christian leaders are Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Hal Lindsey.

http://religoustolerance.org/

I hope this helps your efforts. I will watch over this forum as I do every forum on this board and make sure that it maintains the quality and follows the rules of this site, but I doubt I will participate. Someone, somewhere, doesn't feel that I am qualified.

I must go make my post in the Bible reading forum now. It's usually rather inactive, but at least it's something I can define and in which I can believe.

May God bless you, sir

Clint Kritzer
Baptist Board Administrator

[Edited to correct link after move to archive]

[ September 08, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]

 

[go2church]

what else can I say. Even the fundamentalists don't agree about the Fundamentalist Forum

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Clint, from what I have seen, your input here could be very valuable. I hope you reconsider, and do join in once in a while. I still kinda think this could be a disaster, but I am willing to try and make it work. If it becomes a show, then I will bow out, as well.

Please drop in and say a few words, once in a while.

BTW, I didn't think that certain members couldn't come in, it's just that a biblical principal would be assumed to be innerrant on this thread. An argument of meaning would be appropriate, but not inspiration. If I have to be a fundie to be here, then I am more than a little worried about where this will go. There are plenty of Fundie sites on the web, and I would hate to see this one go the way of the others I have seen.

 

[LadyEagle]

Thanks, Clint. Your input is valuable & needed.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Clint Kritzer:

Toward the end of that thread, Brother Robert Vaughn came up with this list from our conversation:

1. The centrality of Jesus Christ as Lord and the Bible as God's word; including the New Testament as the all-sufficient rule of faith and practice

Clint I have always appreciated your views and I appreciate this look into the forming of the board. I would add though that if #1 above had been promoted and moderated into the other forums I for one would not have looked for another forum.
I would also be very happy to go back and try again. I would also add that since my thread was added here by the webmaster as the reason behind the addition of the forum that it was titled conservative not fundamental, as you well noted fundamental is always a bone of contention.
Murph

 

[VoiceInTheWilderness]

Personally I think this forum is a wonderful idea. We will never agree with each other on every jot and tittle, but at least here we can agree on what some of us would consider an essential to the faith - The inerrantcy of scripture.

How some could consider themselves Baptist and NOT believe in the Verbal-Plenary Inspiration, of a complete, inerrant Word of God is a mystery to me!

[ September 08, 2002, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: A voice crying in the wilderness ]

 

[Maverick]

They don't call us fighting Fundamentalists for nothing. The key is to attack issues and even organizations,but not individual people. Take an issue and slice it and dice it, pulverize it and murdalize yet. Just don't anyone take it personally. Be emphatic! Far better than being apathetic. Heck, I have been called many names on the Internet from prophet to things I can't post here, but I don't take either the positive or the negative seriously. Heck, if we thought the Liberals were right we would be one. We don't and we ain't. No one has said anything here that I have not similar retorts from Liberals. They are not as genteel as they would like to present themselves. So, speak what you believe and feel and as the lad said let the chips fall where they may. Take two chocolate covered Prozac and post again in the morning.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by DocCas:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by go2church:
I agree with Bob this won't work, but knock yourselves out anyhow.

If you don't want to participate, feel free to leave, but knock off the negative comments!</font>[/QUOTE]I think this will be a wonderful thing! At least be positive about it!

B.T.

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by Brother Tony:
I think this will be a wonderful thing! At least be positive about it!

I agree, Brother Tony! Why in the world would anyone want to be negative about what we want to talk about!