I'm becoming Orthodox

[Matt Black]

Not my reasons; as I said, have a look at some of my postings in this forum over the last 6 months to get a feel. My main reasons:-

1. Sola scriptura, congregational autonomy and soul liberty (all sides of the same coin) don't work; rather they produce a collection of mutually contradictory epistemologies. A more consensual and dialogical approach to interpretation of Scripture is therefore needed.

2. I yearn for an authentic encounter with God and find that not only lacking in my Baptist church, but actively discouraged; for example, we are always at great pains to stress the Real Absence (as opposed to the Real Presence) at communion.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[TexasSky]

Matt,

I think the reasons I listed fit with your second reason.

 

[D28guy]

Matt,

You specified Baptists. I am not baptist.(but have been a part of 2 Baptist fellowships during my christian life.)

I'll comment using "evangelicalism" as the contrast.

"Not my reasons; as I said, have a look at some of my postings in this forum over the last 6 months to get a feel. My main reasons:-

1. Sola scriptura, congregational autonomy and soul liberty (all sides of the same coin) don't work;"

Needless to say, they work beautifully...if compared against other ways.

Sola Scriptura:

I cant think of any group that denies sola scriptura and claims that they are Gods truth interpreter for the "lay" people that isnt light years beyond evangelicalism regarding error, false teaching, idolatry, and heresy.

Here are some groups who deny sola scriptura and say that their organisation is Gods truth interpreter...

Jehovas Witnesses

David Koresh

Mormons

Jim Jones

Catholic Church

Christian Science

Clearly that position doesnt work. Exrememly bad things are inevitable when Gods truth standard is rejected and the leadership of a large church body are not held accountable to the scriptures by those in the church.

Problems that come up in evangelicalism is not the fault of sola scriptura, they are because we are all flawed people. Sola Scriptura keeps the problems from multiplying exponentially unchecked as if evidenced in the Catholic Church. What a hidious and blasphemous overflow of error and idolatry in that group, and others who reject Gods scriptures as the truth standard.

Congregational autonomy:

That is Gods method of choice. A localised hierarchy is all we find in the scriptures. Their is no biblical support for any kind of monsterous world wide behemoth of hierarchial oppression and control.

Soul liberty

Gods idea of course, not ours.

"rather they produce a collection of mutually contradictory epistemologies."

But they are all proclaiming the true gospel and are in unity as the one body of Christ. I fellowship just fine with evangelicals, charismatics, pentecostals, non-charismatics, baptists, etc."

Regarding differences on non-foundational things, the scriptures tell us to expect it, and to allow it to occur.

I yearn for an authentic encounter with God and find that not only lacking in my Baptist church, but actively discouraged; for example, we are always at great pains to stress the Real Absence (as opposed to the Real Presence) at communion.

The reason is because born again people have the Lord Jesus Christ alive inside of them...not alive inside of a cracker. The "real presence" teaching is an example of the idolatry I mentioned earlier in this post.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
I currently go to a Baptist church but have become aware over the last 6 months or so of the deficiencies of that tradition, particularly ecclesiologically and generally theologically (trawl through the last 6 months on this forum for a flavour). Whilst I would perhaps baulk at the EOC or Catholic Church, I would I think feel more at home in, how can I put it, a more Magisterial rather than Radical Reformation tradition, such as Anglicanism. I'm still contemplating my future though ATM and asking for the Lord's guidance - would appreciate your prayers.

Yours in Christ

Matt

Praying for you Brother Matt.

I could pray
better if you would remind me what 'EOC'
and 'ATM' means. Here in the states 'ATM'
means 'automated teller machine'

 

[Matt Black]

It does here, too! But in 'netspeak' it means "at the moment". EOC=Eastern Orthodox Church.

I appreciate your prayers, Ed

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Matt Black]

HERE'S AN ARTICLE written from an evangelical POV* as to why some evangelicals become Orthodox

Yours in Christ

Matt

*Note to Ed: = Point of View

 

[Gold Dragon]

Taufgesinnter, may God reveal Himself to you ever more richly as you enter this new chapter in your journey of faith that many evangelicals have also begun.

I choose to remain Baptist even while agreeing with you about many of your greivances. Doctrine and tradition are important defining parts of our identity in Christ, but they do not fully encompass.

 

[D28guy]

Matt Black,

from your link...

"Thirdly, we need to take a long hard look at our worship. Recent emphasis on mutual ministry has benefited many churches, but there is more to worship than 'doing our thing', having a good sing or listening to a good sermon. Sometimes our services risk being more like what one convert called 'the Labour Club on concert night' than a foretaste of the gathering depicted in Hebrews 12.22-24, and we too rarely experience that sense of the transcendence of God which lies at the heart of Orthodox worship. As one convert wrote: 'It is the constant theme of most of those who come to the Orthodox Church and her services that what drew them was not understanding, fashion or acceptance of much they felt was strange. It was their conviction that they had profoundly met with God in the worship.'

As one who is probably more pentecostal/charismatic then maybe many on BaptistBoard, I can certainly appreciate the idea of profoundly "encountering" God in a worship service.

(or during a normal day at home for that matter)

Probably the vast majority of time, I have heart that is very much biased and inclined towards that kind of thing.

However, the christian faith is more than just "warm and fuzzies" during worship. Thats not to mean that warm and fuzzies arent legitimate. They can very well be VERY legitimate. But the christian faith is also a faith of objective emperical truth claims.

In my experience with Orthodox...and its admittedly less than with Roman Catholics...I have noticed two things that are very very vigorously denied...

1) Gods truth of justification through faith alone.

2) And Gods truth that it is the scriptures alone that are our truth standard to test all things against.

And one thing thing that is very very vigorously promoted...

A completly idolatrous attitude towards the sinner saved by grace Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Because of errors of such foundational magnitude the only sensible attitude to have towards the Orthodox is to warn against it.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
Taufgesinnter, may God reveal Himself to you ever more richly as you enter this new chapter in your journey of faith that many evangelicals have also begun.

I choose to remain Baptist even while agreeing with you about many of your greivances. Doctrine and tradition are important defining parts of our identity in Christ, but they do not fully encompass.

Thank you so much!

 

[Born Again Catholic]

Taufgesinnter

I have tremendous respect for the Orthodox Churches and wish you well on your journey. Their spirituality and liturgy have so much to be admired.

I haven't read the entire thread so i may have missed it but have you decided which Orthodox Church you will join and did you ever consider any of the 21 orthodox rites in union with the See of Rome. I know they are sort of the black sheep of the Orthodox family but was curious which Orthodox Church you were going to join and why that one verses another Orthodox Church.

God Bless you

 

[Born Again Catholic]

Taufgesinnter

Here is a to the Byzantine Catholic Church Forum if you are interested.

http://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php

[ July 29, 2005, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Born Again Catholic ]

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Originally posted by Born Again Catholic:
Taufgesinnter

I have tremendous respect for the Orthodox Churches and wish you well on your journey. Their spirituality and liturgy have so much to be admired.

I haven't read the entire thread so i may have missed it but have you decided which Orthodox Church you will join and did you ever consider any of the 21 orthodox rites in union with the See of Rome. I know they are sort of the black sheep of the Orthodox family but was curious which Orthodox Church you were going to join and why that one verses another Orthodox Church.

God Bless you

Thank you! That was very kind.

Because all of the canonical Orthodox jurisdictions are part of the same Church in full communion, and AFAIK, normally use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostum, the common lectionary, the same calendar, and hold the same beliefs, the main considerations of where to join would be language, ethnicity and inclusiveness, and location.

Since my initial studies, I've been partial to the Church of Antioch, which received nearly 2000 members of the Evangelical Orthodox Church in 1987. I was especially impressed by the welcome given them by Metropolitan Philip. Also, Antioch switched over to English quite some time ago. I'm further impressed that 78% of the Antiochian seminary students are converts, as are about half their priests, and over half their bishops. They've roughly doubled the number of parishes in the U.S. and Canada in the last 20 years, and they're one of the few jurisdictions with a Western Rite.

All of that said, however, my friends and I initially attended an Orthodox Church in America parish because that's the parish of the priest my best friend made his original appointment with. The priest is an ex-Protestant, and 2/3 of the members are from non-Orthodox backgrounds. We were warmly received and have begun forming relationships there. Overall, something like 25% of OCA members nationally are of non-Orthodox backgrounds, usually evangelical, and I forget the clergy figure (20%? and growing). Plus, the OCA was one of the first to switch to English, and recently admitted the last, roughly 500 members of the Evangelical Orthodox Church. Finally, the local OCA parish is handicapped-accessible, whereas the local Antiochian parish is not, which had to be the deciding factor in our case.

Whenever I move away from this area, I don't expect the jurisdiction of my next parish to matter as much as other factors like those above, but I would plan to visit and investigate mainly Antiochian and OCA parishes anyway.

Thanks again!