I'm Shocked (or maybe not)

Dear rl,
One of the reasons, I THINK, for attributing base motives so easily is that, ironically, this is a Baptist message board.
That is, if I disagree with my Presbyterian friend, or my Methodist friend, why, I already knew I had to look past their many failings.
And I can feel quite broadminded in doing so.

However, all these people who call themselves Baptists and don't remotely agree with me! But they also don't agree with any pastor I have ever had, my grandparents, my Sunday School teacher now, my Sunday School teacher when I was 22. That's scary for many of us. It means our view of what is a Baptist is far smaller than the scope of what is out there. And it threatens us, and makes us feel defensive. Far easier to attribute base motives. Then we don't have to deal with the idea that we MAY have been taught wrong on a particular idea for 25-50 years. And that by a beloved pastor or Sunday School teacher that we see face to face.

Ironically, we often at the same time witness to people who have never heard the Gospel and expect an instant response.

This is not a comprehensive answer, but I think it is part of what can go on in our minds on a message board.

Karen

 

If there's one thing we can count on a Baptist to be - it's diverse.

 

Notice I'm not real active in the debate subjects. It's great to have your own opinion but I feel that I have been judged a few times for mine. I just try to stick to the lighthearted stuff unless it's something I feel really passionate about.

 

I think Karen is correct. I didn't know there were so many different "Baptist" interpretations of scripture, etc. until I joined this Board. I thought most Baptist believed the way I had been taught all these years.

It really is good to read different viewpoints and learn from them.

 

James 5:19-20
(19) Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
(20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Is it a sin to hold a false view of scripture? Is it a sin to teach error to new Christians who are relying on older established Christians to show them the right way to go?

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

We must do everything in a spirit of meekness, and in the fear of the Lord. We shouldn't be puffed up and proud of what little light God has enabled us to receive from His word. But we should earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints.

Jude 1:3-4
(3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Like Thankful, I never realized how many different interpretations there were either. Only God knows which is right so who am I to argue.

 

and

Don't be, it's an old Baptist Tradition...

Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren...

Hmm, what must it have been like to hear the Apostles arguing?

HankD

 

OK I understand.

HankD

 

Perhaps the problem is that many Baptists rely on what they were taught rather than on what they learned from carefully and prayerfully studying the Bible for themselves.

 

I do not believe that this is so much a matter of one’s motive as it is a matter of one’s attitude. In order to discuss this matter intelligently, we need to make a distinction between one’s motive and one’s attitude. These words are not synonyms, and they do not express the same concept. From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary we have:

Main Entry: 1mo•tive
Pronunciation: 'mO-tiv, 2 is also mO-'tEv
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French motif, from motif, adjective, moving, from Medieval Latin motivus, from Latin motus, past participle of movEre to move
1 : something (as a need or desire) that causes a person to act
2 : a recurrent phrase or figure that is developed through the course of a musical composition
3 : MOTIF
- mo•tive•less /-l&s/ adjective
- mo•tive•less•ly adverb
- mo•ti•vic /mO-'tE-vik/ adjective
synonyms MOTIVE, IMPULSE, INCENTIVE, INDUCEMENT, SPUR, GOAD mean a stimulus to action. MOTIVE implies an emotion or desire operating on the will and causing it to act <a motive for the crime>. IMPULSE suggests a driving power arising from personal temperament or constitution <buying on impulse>. INCENTIVE applies to an external influence (as an expected reward) inciting to action <a bonus was offered as an incentive>. INDUCEMENT suggests a motive prompted by the deliberate enticements or allurements of another <offered a watch as an inducement to subscribe>. SPUR applies to a motive that stimulates the faculties or increases energy or ardor <fear was a spur to action>. GOAD suggests a motive that keeps one going against one's will or desire <thought insecurity a goad to worker efficiency>.

Main Entry: at•ti•tude
Pronunciation: 'a-t&-"tüd, -"tyüd
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Italian attitudine, literally, aptitude, from Late Latin aptitudin-, aptitudo fitness -- more at APTITUDE
1 : the arrangement of the parts of a body or figure : POSTURE
2 : a position assumed for a specific purpose <a threatening attitude>
3 : a ballet position similar to the arabesque in which the raised leg is bent at the knee
4 a : a mental position with regard to a fact or state b : a feeling or emotion toward a fact or state
5 : the position of an aircraft or spacecraft determined by the relationship between its axes and a reference datum (as the horizon or a particular star)
6 : an organismic state of readiness to respond in a characteristic way to a stimulus (as an object, concept, or situation)
7 a : a negative or hostile state of mind b : a cocky or arrogant manner

 

Maybe Not

Bro. Robert, before encountering folks on this board, I never knew that some bapstists believed a correct interpretaton of scripture was necessary for salvation. I think a good bit of the bickering here is from that belief.rather than soem base motive. Now some do seem to make those base judgments and are unable to do any better. (See the recent Amill thread for examples).

Some folks don't seem to have anything better to do that sit at the keyboard and argue with people hundreds or thousands of miles away. Frankly not my cup of tea and in my opinion a complete waste of time. How many have changed their minds based on any of these debates. I submit very few. No one has ever convinced me I was significantly in error in any of the beliefs I held before joining here, but I have been insulted, ridiculed and told that I was going to split Hell wide open for my faith. Not really the best way to find friends and influence enemies.

But for the question why, some must believe they are following their faith and trying to keep others from what they see as error. Just most folks arent very good at it.

We know in part, see in part, and look through a glass darkly.

Since I am one who doen't believe the flavor of ones faith has any bearing on salvation, I am generally content to let folks argue till the cows come home. Faith is faith and comes from God. We Baptists of whatever stripe tend to complicate the matter out of all proportion.

Running for a bunker.

 

As well you should.

Lob OUTGOING! expect INCOMING!



HankD

 

Rlvaughn,

My brother may have an attitude problem and be very jealous of our grandfather’s brand new Ferrari, but his motive for telling him to take it back to the dealer may not be jealousy at all . . . considering that our grandfather is 108 years old, has vision in only one eye, and has been terribly uncoordinated ever since he was born. And besides that, his driver’s license was permanently revoked 28 year ago! Oh, I forgot to mention—my brother loves our grandfather.

 

Algebra never was my best subject. My professional training is in biology, linguistics, translation theory, and New Testament exegesis.

This very day a moderator erroneously accused me of disparaging the character of a board member by the use of an ad hominem augment (he apparently doesn’t know what an ad hominem augment is). Less than an hour later another moderator erroneously accused me of saying that other members on this board were baboons (he apparently misread my post). I believe that their motives were pure enough, but their attitudes were seriously impaired as a consequence of their faulty perception. The first one apparently did not understand my post (in the past couple days he has radically misunderstood some things that I have posted) and the second very strongly disagrees with some of my theological positions and this very likely caused his attitude to impair his ability to read and understand a post that included both the word baboon and the word fundamentalist. But of course the true motive of the second moderator may have been “nemo me impune lacessit.” Only my moderator knows for sure.

Now let’s see how the moderators respond to this post. What will their attitude be like? Will they rebuke me, edit my post, or ban me for these comments? And what will be their motive? Perhaps more important to this thread, will their motive be a function of their attitude or will it be a function of something very different, perhaps even something very noble on their part?