I'm Shocked (or maybe not)

Craig, you ironically sign yourself off as a saint. I would think twice about doing that if I were you.
If you don't like the way the moderaters moderate,
and if you have come here to complain about the way the things are done,
and if you simply have taken it upon yourself to be the self-appointed insulter of the board,
and if things are just sooooooo miserable here for you.........

then why don't you just leave and go somewhere else??
DHK

 

Or maybe, just maybe- your condescending tone and use of things like "babboon" and "radical fundamentalists" conveys a message that is offensive whether intentional or not. I am not a moderator but I perceived your post the exact same way.

Part of that perception is that you frequently use a condescending and dismissive tone with those of us who disagree with you. You have made it very apparent that you consider anyone who disagrees with you on the topic of evolution as either ignorant or stupid and/or dishonest.

Now you want to claim innocence after using inflammatory terms?

We all get a little rough and tumble in here from time to time. We have to be thick skinned and quick to forgive.

But there must be boundaries. I believe that forbidding the usage of language that can have no other effect than to insult an opponent on a personal level is a reasonable restriction.

You have stated before that you think creationists hurt the gospel since believers in evolution think we're ignorant. You're entitled to that belief no matter how wrong I think you are in light of the fact that the NT warns us that the wise of this world will reject the gospel. Truth doesn't hinge on what people are willing to accept operating from an unregenerate worldview.

None the less, this type of debate can be conducted in a civil, respectful tone.

 

You have completely missed my point—I do not have a problem with the moderators. Most of them do an excellent job and I have told them so both in public and in private messages. Dr. Bob has not posted for several days and his absence from this board is very obvious and very painful. My point was simply that discerning the motive of a poster on a message board is not easy, either for the ordinary members or the moderators, and to assume a link between one’s attitude and one’s motive is not a valid assumption.

However, after many interactions with certain individuals on a message board, those individuals with training for the pastoral ministry can recognize some of the “signals” that these posters send unintentionally and begin, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to discern both the attitude and the motive behind the posts by these individuals. But, of course, sometimes even they make mistakes.

 

A soft answer turns away wrath (not baboons)

 

Perhaps the problem is that many Baptists rely on what they were taught rather than on what they learned from carefully and prayerfully studying the Bible for themselves.
</font>[/QUOTE]Well said. Too many teach SYI and not what they have actualy studied. In my years of pastoring I encounted a number of pastors who after studying realized what they heard was not what the truth is. But they refuse to change because they werte afraid of what the congregation might think or that thers might not like what is preached.

At some point in time, some preachers have made the changes. If some of what was preached today many years ago were preached today the preacher would be run out of town because of a serious lack of study. Some of the preachers from the 16 and 1700's didn't believe in study. They believed the Holy Spirit would take care of that and they did not need to study but rely on the Holy Spirit.

 

I have posted several times that in my early years I was an evolutionary biologist. My education, therefore, included the study of biology, botany, zoology, paleontology, palynology, geology, physics, chemistry, psychology, animal behavior, and other subjects and disciplines that are involved in the study of evolution. Most of my work was in the laboratory with other scientists and of course I got to know to them both professionally and personally. I found them to be men of outstanding character who were endeavoring to expand man’s knowledge of the world in which we live in order than we might make this world a better and safer place for all of us.

I was working in a very large university and the subject of creation came up only once, and only for a few minutes, between a professor and a student, and I witnessed the conversation but did not participate in it. However, the difference in knowledge between the professor and the undergraduate student was tremendous, and I was very surprised to hear her arguing with him.

I had no personal experience with creationists until some years later when I became saved and began fellowshipping with Baptists. And among these Baptists the subject of creationism was very frequently brought up, and it was all to apparent that that none of them had any first-hand knowledge of creation science, or any other science, but had read some material of some sort that was very erroneous. I became very concerned and began reading the literature that they were reading and I was no less than horrified to see how this literature distorted scientific data and the proper interpretation of. This literature also greatly exaggerated and even lied about the academic qualifications and appointments of creation scientists. I was absolutely appalled that those who name Jesus Christ as their savior could do such a thing, but I saw that they were doing it, not only occasionally, but as a regular practice. But that is not all that they were doing—they were also attacking the honesty and the integrity of scientists who believe in evolution when they, themselves, were liars.

Many examples of these lies and willful distortions have been posted on this message board by others, and I have posted some of them myself, with word for word quotes. Some others have posted examples of dishonesty among a few scientists who believe in evolution. But having lived and worked with the data myself, I know first hand who is lying and who is telling the truth . . . and when I read claims that I know for a fact are based on lies and distortions of the data, I dismiss the claims. To laymen who are not familiar with the facts, it may appear that I am dismissing claims out of hand—but that is not the case. I do not dismiss anything out of hand. Indeed, during my years as an evolutionary biologist I never dismissed the possibility that the theory of evolution was seriously flawed.

The opinion, however, that the scientific data relevant to the age of the earth points to a young earth rather than an old earth I do dismiss, but not out of hand. The data conclusively points to an old earth, and I would stake my life upon that fact without a second of hesitation.

Am I arrogant because I firmly believe, after many years of study, that the vast majority of scientists are correct in believing that the earth is old rather than young? Or is my opponent the one who is arrogant, firmly believing, without many years of study, that the vast majority of scientists are wrong and that he is right?

Is science the vanity of men or is it a gift from God to help man learn more about Him and His creation I believe that science is a gift from God. And having presented to you what I believe, I shall leave it up to you to do with my beliefs on this matter as you see fit and I shall withdraw from this thread.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Craig, please refrain from turning this into an evolution debate. If you'd like to continue that discussion, please take it to the Science Forum at
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/forum/66.html?

 

Craig,

Nice post. Well put.