While not exactly true (even the Mob had unintentional collateral damage)...this is the most valid analogy I've heard so far.
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- Thread starter Havensdad
- Start date
preacher4truth
Active Member
While not exactly true (even the Mob had unintentional collateral damage)...this is the most valid analogy I've heard so far.
Yes, I'm certain there are some folks that live a mile or two away from these terrorists and are quite happy we aren't using SCUDS against them. :thumbsup:
The Afghan people still, overwhelmingly, want us gone.
How do you know this?
Those who think we are fighting an aggressive war right now are ignorant of the facts. We are not aggressive at all, merely reactive. Let me tell you a couple stories:
1. My platoon was tasked with clearing routes up North from our FOB in order to allow a following unit to escort Afghan trucks delivering wheat seed to farmers. The intent was to enable farmers to gain more independence, and grow food to keep villages from suffering because of hunger.
On the way up the route, my Platoon was hit with an IED. It disabled a truck. We adjusted and kept moving. We got hit with a second IED. It disabled another truck, and we had to medivac a friend of mine.
We finally cleared the route, and the unit escorted the Afghans up north. On the way, they took incoming fire from terrorists. Who did the terrorists fire at? Not the escorts, but the Afghans. Before the mission, we had to pay the Afghans much more than their original asking price to go up north, as they already knew that the terrorists would target them, and not us.
When the Afghan trucks came into the compound that my platoon was in, we received indirect fire (mortars) from terrorists. They didn't attack the compound until they knew the Afghan trucks were there. After the Afghan trucks left, there was no more IDF.
In this scenario, who is the oppressors?
2. We recently had a situation in which one of our vehicles was disabled near a village. While recovering it, I was tasked with taking our interpreter to the nearby children, as they were getting in the way of the recovery, and were in danger if something should fail.
While I was out there, the children were excitedly showing me their school books, and kept shouting "Khalum Braka" (phonetically spelled), which the interpreter told me meant "Give us pens" (ink pens).
An old man came up, and through the interpreter, thanked me for keeping the roads clear of IEDs that kill his villagers. He offered me some Afghani bread, "non", and asked if they could help with recovery.
Sounds like they hate us, huh?
3. Frequently in our area, the IEDs that are found are not discovered by Coalition Forces. About half the time, they are focused on the Afghan Police, or the Afghan Army. There is reason to believe that the ones we hit are also majorly targeting the Afghan Army/Police.
Is what we are doing over here wrong? Providing food and security? Making people's lives better? Allowing people the opportunity to have some semblence of quality of life?
Did you know that in the last year, the amount of children registered for school in our area has increased ten times? From 4,000 to 40,000? Our presence and actions over here right now are ensuring not only that there are no terrorist activities being planned for American soil, but it is also helping to ensure that the people here realize that America is not an enemy, but a friend, providing for future relations.
For not condoning us being over here, you sure are reaping the benefits.
I have made it clear time and time again that I do not wish war on anyone. But if my actions can assure that my children never see war, I will gladly go to war. You act as if I enjoy sitting over here, away from my wife and three kids, in danger almost every day. Fact is, I am as tired of this war as anyone else.
Regardless of the reason we came over here in the first place, we are here. Whatever happened to get us here happened before I joined, and there is nothing I can do about the past. I can only take what I am given, and try to ensure the best possible future with it. And I am helping to ensure that once we are out of here, we won't have to worry about terrorist attacks from this country, and that the people here are provided for once we leave.
I will never try and justify the reason we entered Iraq or Afghanistan. Again, that was before my time. I didn't start the war. But I am going to help finish it. I would gladly fight any war that is necessary to ensure the survival of our nation, and the security of my family.
"Pacifism is feeding a tiger steaks, hoping he'll become a vegetarian" -unknown to me
Thank you for your service to our country. My brother is over there with you also serving (although elsewhere in the country) and what you describe is similar to his descriptions of his time in Iraq.
They must be some other country than I have been to. I have been to Iraq for a year, and have been (and currently am in) Afghanistan for 5 months. The people here have only expressed gratitude to us. (Again, see my previous post).
Totally agree with you here. We have a great military support ministry at our church and are in contact with many men and women serving in these countries and we hear consistently the same thing - the gratefulness from the citizens that we are helping them. Children thank them. Mothers cry and hug them. Men thank them with tears in their eyes. The adults know what they are being saved from.
Totally agree with you here. We have a great military support ministry at our church and are in contact with many men and women serving in these countries and we hear consistently the same thing - the gratefulness from the citizens that we are helping them. Children thank them. Mothers cry and hug them. Men thank them with tears in their eyes. The adults know what they are being saved from.
If there is any doubt just look at what has happened in Iraq the past few days.
If there is any doubt just look at what has happened in Iraq the past few days.
Unfortunately, with being so busy then down with a migraine, I've not watched the news. What happened?
How do you know this?
They have polled them; I believe the last count was somewhere around 75 percent. I, also, know folks over there, personally and through a couple of different churches. There general sentiment is that while they are trying to do good, and most of the people are not mean to them, they have still made it clear that they are not happy with them being there.
Even Sapper_woody admitted, in an earlier post, that this is so. Certainly the polls done right here in the U.S. show that overwhelmingly the U.S. populace want the troops home, want to cut off all foreign aid, etc.
Perhaps thats why in the latest Zogby poll, Paul has doubled his support in New Hampshire (24 percent)..
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Thank you for your service to our country.
And I thank them as well. Understand my issue is not with them, but with the idiot bureaucrats in Washington. I greatly respect our fighting men and women.
They have polled them; I believe the last count was somewhere around 75 percent.
Can you show me this poll?
I, also, know folks over there, personally and through a couple of different churches. There general sentiment is that while they are trying to do good, and most of the people are not mean to them, they have still made it clear that they are not happy with them being there.
That contradicts what I've heard.
Even Sapper_woody admitted, in an earlier post, that this is so.
What he said is:
Of course they don't want us there. But they appreciate us there. Huge difference.
Certainly the polls done right here in the U.S. show that overwhelmingly the U.S. populace want the troops home, want to cut off all foreign aid, etc.
Perhaps thats why in the latest Zogby poll, Paul has doubled his support in New Hampshire (24 percent)..
Of course the US populace wants the troops home. I want my brother home. But I also want safety for others and I would be grateful should the scenerio be reversed.
Can you show me this poll?
"79 percent of people in the two provinces say American and allied troops should start their withdrawal next summer or sooner." (this was from late last year...)
"Nationwide, more than half of Afghans interviewed said U.S. and NATO forces should begin to leave the country"
Also, Now:
"more than a quarter of Afghans again say attacks against U.S. and other foreign military forces are justifiable"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/06/AR2010120601788.html
From the Ground: These People Just want us to Leave
That contradicts what I've heard.
Guess it depends on ones perception, where they are stationed, etc. People far away from the fighting are probably not as bothered by the occupation.
What he said is:
Which is what I said he said.
Of course the US populace wants the troops home. I want my brother home. But I also want safety for others and I would be grateful should the scenerio be reversed.
No. The poll is not "would it be nice if they were home." The poll is "Should we bring them home." The great majority of the American people are sick of these overseas entanglements, and want our troops home.
It is as sickening to continue to use our tax dollars to fund something that we are ethically opposed to, against the majority, as it is to take our money and give it to Planned Parenthood.
If certain people are in favor of doing some kind of charitable military involvement overseas, then they should sign up separately for this, and it should be privately funded. It is unethical to use the tax payers money to do it, against there will. This is robbery, plain and simple (much like welfare...).
Dated Dec 2010, not "now"...."79 percent of people in the two provinces say American and allied troops should start their withdrawal next summer or sooner." (this was from late last year...)
"Nationwide, more than half of Afghans interviewed said U.S. and NATO forces should begin to leave the country"
Also, Now:
"more than a quarter of Afghans again say attacks against U.S. and other foreign military forces are justifiable"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/06/AR2010120601788.html
Dated 2009, not "now"....From the Ground: These People Just want us to Leave
Dated Dec 2010, not "now"....
Dated 2009, not "now"....
December of 2010 is not THAT long ago...
do you have something more recent? Because the people wanted us out by summer 2011, at the latest. Do you have a more recent poll, to show that they are happy we violated there wishes?
I want those of you who are heavily in favor of the police action overseas to stop and think for a moment. Put yourselves in the shoes of an Iraqi or Iran, or Afghani mother or father. Imagine that you were an honest, hardworking farmer, trying to raise your kids.
One day you go to town. Your little 6 year old girl goes with you. Suddenly from above, the sound of planes...you grab her hand and run for shelter, but its to late. An explosion rips her hand from yours, and sends you hurtling across the ground.
You awake, a short time later. Bodies are all around you, along with U.S. ground troops. Among the bodies, you see your precious little girl, her eyes staring blankly up at the sky...
Put yourself in the shoes of this father. What would you do? How would you feel? I pray you watch this with an open mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao461iG9UsA
How about imagining that all foreign and domestic peacemakers and defenders left your neighborhood so that your precious little girl can grow up without any foreign presence of any kind, so she is free to be made to marry some 70 year old sex pervert with a record number of diseases, or that the ruling thugs in your 'foreigner-free' neighborhood decides to use your precious little girl for a suicide bombing run against the nextdoor native equally murderous warlord. Just imagine what life would be like if there were no-one in the way to stop drug warlords from taking little girls into their own 'small country-sized' harem of underage slave prostitutes.
I remember, but only vaguely, what I heard one time about a true story in India, I think. A local tribal leader was finishing off the last details with a sort of 'court' hearing among the tribal council and were going to stone a young girl for refusing to marry or disgracing her family in some minor manner like that, and a British Army officer stepped in to stop the planned proceedings with the execution. The tribal leader explained the customs of the natives and why they must kill the girl. The British officer responded by explaining British customs and why they must hang tribal leaders who do such things.
There are those in America who do not understand what is at stake in the world today, which is why we desperately need men and women in leadership who do understand proper foreign policy. It didn't matter if 100% of Afghans did not want us going after Osama, it was imperative that we did. It doesn't matter what the Iranian people think about their leaders and about foreigners, the countries of the world cannot allow some tinpot dictator to get his hands on deadly weapons of mass destruction who has threatened to use those weapons against any and all foes who cross them in any way. These insaniacs are accustomed to killing themselves in suicide missions on small scales, we cannot allow them to annihilate themselves and the rest of the world in suicide missions on the larger scale.
That doesn't even begin to touch on all the reasons we must keep an active military presence in the Middle East. All the thugs of all the world are after control of the Middle Esat oil fields, and they would love to have the armed guards removed. They want the oild fields because that would make them in effect the rulers of the entire world and the controllers of all the riches in the world. Not only that, but all of these insaniacs seem hell-bent on finishing what Hitler started in the merciless genocidal murder of every living jew on the planet.
We don't need leaders who are pussy-footing around with these murderous thugs. We need leaders (Reagan was one) who will take out the 'big stick' and actually use it wisely to keep these thugs in check. If the US pulls out of the Middle East and turns its back on Israel, then God help us (or, I sould say there will be no reason to hope that God will continue to help us after that.) WW3 is coming and the only thing that is keeping it in check right now is the strong military force (mostly US) in the region at the present, keeping the thugs from making their move. As soon as we move out of the region, we will soon be drawn back there again in massive bloody conflict made much worse and harder to reestablish a fighting foothold with which to try to put the enemy down before he destroys the whole world in his insane madness.
For those who do not see or believe these things, may I sugges a smoot and quiet reading by the fireplace of a biography on Neville Chamberlain?
How about imagining that all foreign and domestic peacemakers and defenders left your neighborhood so that your precious little girl can grow up without any foreign presence of any kind, so she is free to be made to marry some 70 year old sex pervert with a record number of diseases, or that the ruling thugs in your 'foreigner-free' neighborhood decides to use your precious little girl for a suicide bombing run against the nextdoor native equally murderous warlord. Just imagine what life would be like if there were no-one in the way to stop drug warlords from taking little girls into their own 'small country-sized' harem of underage slave prostitutes.
I remember, but only vaguely, what I heard one time about a true story in India, I think. A local tribal leader was finishing off the last details with a sort of 'court' hearing among the tribal council and were going to stone a young girl for refusing to marry or disgracing her family in some minor manner like that, and a British Army officer stepped in to stop the planned proceedings with the execution. The tribal leader explained the customs of the natives and why they must kill the girl. The British officer responded by explaining British customs and why they must hang tribal leaders who do such things.
There are those in America who do not understand what is at stake in the world today, which is why we desperately need men and women in leadership who do understand proper foreign policy. It didn't matter if 100% of Afghans did not want us going after Osama, it was imperative that we did. It doesn't matter what the Iranian people think about their leaders and about foreigners, the countries of the world cannot allow some tinpot dictator to get his hands on deadly weapons of mass destruction who has threatened to use those weapons against any and all foes who cross them in any way. These insaniacs are accustomed to killing themselves in suicide missions on small scales, we cannot allow them to annihilate themselves and the rest of the world in suicide missions on the larger scale.
That doesn't even begin to touch on all the reasons we must keep an active military presence in the Middle East. All the thugs of all the world are after control of the Middle Esat oil fields, and they would love to have the armed guards removed. They want the oild fields because that would make them in effect the rulers of the entire world and the controllers of all the riches in the world. Not only that, but all of these insaniacs seem hell-bent on finishing what Hitler started in the merciless genocidal murder of every living jew on the planet.
We don't need leaders who are pussy-footing around with these murderous thugs. We need leaders (Reagan was one) who will take out the 'big stick' and actually use it wisely to keep these thugs in check. If the US pulls out of the Middle East and turns its back on Israel, then God help us (or, I sould say there will be no reason to hope that God will continue to help us after that.) WW3 is coming and the only thing that is keeping it in check right now is the strong military force (mostly US) in the region at the present, keeping the thugs from making their move. As soon as we move out of the region, we will soon be drawn back there again in massive bloody conflict made much worse and harder to reestablish a fighting foothold with which to try to put the enemy down before he destroys the whole world in his insane madness.
For those who do not see or believe these things, may I sugges a smoot and quiet reading by the fireplace of a biography on Neville Chamberlain?
Yeah, cause our involvement over their hasn't only escalated the problem.
Might I suggest a reading of the founders? And when, on EARTH, did the U.S. suddenly become the only "good guy" on the planet? That's the same garbage the Nazi's fed their people..."All those other guys are evil...not like us!"
How long will it take you ridiculous people to realize that we are broke, and have no money, and that around 80-90 percent of our total revenue is going to pointless conflicts, that just make people hate and resent us, and make it easy recruiting for the terrorists? Does the CIA have to testify to this? Oh, wait, they already did. Do military people and former generals have to stand up and testify to this? Oh, wait, they already did.
THEY can't be wrong, cause Bill O'Reilly and Mark Levine, and Sean Hannity said so...
Over a year ago is not "now."December of 2010 is not THAT long ago...
Do you? I can't find a more recent that says whether they're happy or unhappy.do you have something more recent? Because the people wanted us out by summer 2011, at the latest. Do you have a more recent poll, to show that they are happy we violated there wishes?
>Of course the US populace wants the troops home. I want my brother home.
But you would be proud of him and the US if he was killed in a tribal war which has ben on going for 1500 years? I'd rather see my grandkids leave for Canada when the US runs short of volunteer cannon fodder.
But you would be proud of him and the US if he was killed in a tribal war which has ben on going for 1500 years? I'd rather see my grandkids leave for Canada when the US runs short of volunteer cannon fodder.
>Of course the US populace wants the troops home. I want my brother home.
But you would be proud of him and the US if he was killed in a tribal war which has ben on going for 1500 years? I'd rather see my grandkids leave for Canada when the US runs short of volunteer cannon fodder.
I'm proud of my brother for serving our country.
Robert Snow
New Member
I'm proud of my brother for serving our country.
I wonder how much the GI benefits factor into his service? I'm not doubting his giving and putting himself in harm's way, but when I was in my late teens, I knew many who enlisted in order to get help with college and in buying a house after their service was over.
I wonder how much the GI benefits factor into his service?
It is not uncommon for some to ascribe their own motives onto others that they do not know.
Your statement is perhaps more a reflection of your own value system than it is anything else.